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PC spinning out of control
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<blockquote data-quote="(Psi)SeveredHead" data-source="post: 2786436" data-attributes="member: 1165"><p>The problem is that you're running RttToEE, which means "dungeon crawl". A lot of fighting will go on in dungeons.</p><p></p><p>Frankly, I hate the unenforcable "four encounters per day" stuff. I've never seen a group allow that.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I've always felt Greater Invisibility was pretty broken. My mage character doesn't use it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I used a similar tactic, although I never cast more than one summon spell, to keep combat from grinding down. My DM is tactically inexperienced when it comes to killing spellcasters, as well. (He's the only DM I know who runs fighter-type NPCs better than mage-types.)</p><p></p><p>You have to mix up the pre-written encounters to take this into account. Don't bother trying to "scry" or "scout" the party, as it won't work. (I see that advice all the time, as if nobody in the party has Spot.) Instead, use a group with a spellcaster, and have that spellcaster tell his compatriots how to kill other spellcasters. (Ahead of combat, of course.)</p><p></p><p>Now attack from two directions, like ... around the corner! The mage won't be moving much if he's summoning stuff, and feel free to use a <em>potion of see invisibility</em>. I take it your mage isn't smart enough to use <em>nondetection</em> as well to foil this easy tactic?</p><p></p><p>Or, failing that, use a couple of wizards with <em>see invisible</em> and <em>baleful polymorph</em> or other nasty save-or-suffer spells. (Do not use <em>feeblemind!</em> It's obvious, and almost useless against a wide variety of creatures. Do use <em>enervation</em> if you don't think it's broken. It's bad against fighters but murder against mages.)</p><p></p><p>If he dies, the problem is solved... but I doubt that's going to happen. (Besides, killing PCs is bad DMing.) But you have to admit it would be convenient.</p><p></p><p>More seriously, once you've smacked him down, start distributing <em>potions of see invisibility</em> among the bad guys. Those things are <em>really</em> cheap.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Since no one is being raised from the dead, this sounds like killing him would be very convenient <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> But that's not really allowed.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Alter your campaign - set time dependent goals that can't be teleported to, as the players don't know exactly where the goal is.</p><p></p><p>Don't forget to pre-emptively strike against tactics such as ethereal travel. (Eventually your players will figure this out. Find some interesting and nasty looking ethereal monsters - make up a template if you have to - and station them at vulnerable points in the Ethereal Plane. Smart BBEGs will have thought of that ahead of time, so it's not cheating.) Think of other such tactics and strike at them, too.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The DnD designers assumed death was infrequent. Say the gear stops functioning - now you've got some magical armor and some pretty looking rings. Well, that's what I'd do, but I'm sick of the overuse of magic items to begin with...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Unless the thieves are clairvoyant, they can't know the value of his stuff.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm a cowardly, selfish mage in my Eberron games, and this tactic doesn't seem to harm the party. (The elven warrior even congratulated me on my tactics out of game. Well, obviously he isn't an elf in real life.)</p><p></p><p>The mage in questino summons while hanging around a corner. I tend to use save-or-suffer spells like <em>glitterdust</em> and only use direct damage if there's space to do so - which is rare. The rogue grins so much anytime I blind someone that he, at least, isn't going to complain about my tactics. So no, I'm not seeing why other PCs would get ticked.</p><p></p><p>PS I don't buff other PCs.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is a joke, right?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If he's summoning something virtually every round, the answer would be yes. Frankly, summons take up a lot of time (they give the sorcerer many actions). I think the other PCs would be upset if he summons more monsters, as that takes away from their time. Besides, once you gain some levels, the summons start to get powerful, and make a big contribution to the battle. And finally, you can't expect the sorcerer to <em>want</em> to run out of spells until an obvious BBEG battle crops us. The other PCs have to know that, at some point, the sorcerer will need to have some saved up spells to save their lives.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't know this sorcerer, but I do know golems do <em>not</em> scare my wizard. I prepare spells that don't allow SR as a matter of course, giving me the ability to handle creatures with SR and golems ... and <em>O's resilient sphere</em> is useful all the time, anyway.</p><p></p><p>Besides, isn't that a cure that's worse than the disease? It'll be obvious to the sorc player what's going on, and it screws any rogue and cleric PCs as well.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is much better advice. The trap that activates if an arcane caster walks into the room is kind of cheesy - change it to activate when an arcane spell is cast in the room. That's a bit more fair and cleaves closer to the rules. But don't overuse that.</p><p></p><p>The corner trick is harder to do, as the DM doesn't get to make his own terrain in this campaign, but locking doors sounds like it will work.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Same here. I can empathise with this player because I'm the same way. I also know how to screw myself in these situations, however. I've even told some of these secrets to my DM <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> and I did get chopped up by a warforged barbarian once. (I still too hardly any damage.)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, over a short time or even over the whole day. Or perhaps I should say (as a former DM) that it's hard to come up with four interesting and compelling encounters in a day.</p><p></p><p>One of the reasons I switched to running D20 Modern is that I don't have to do four encounters per day. Yay!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Use kobolds. Give them a few rogues and sorcerers. I think that might work for Bauglir. It didn't really work for me, however.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="(Psi)SeveredHead, post: 2786436, member: 1165"] The problem is that you're running RttToEE, which means "dungeon crawl". A lot of fighting will go on in dungeons. Frankly, I hate the unenforcable "four encounters per day" stuff. I've never seen a group allow that. I've always felt Greater Invisibility was pretty broken. My mage character doesn't use it. I used a similar tactic, although I never cast more than one summon spell, to keep combat from grinding down. My DM is tactically inexperienced when it comes to killing spellcasters, as well. (He's the only DM I know who runs fighter-type NPCs better than mage-types.) You have to mix up the pre-written encounters to take this into account. Don't bother trying to "scry" or "scout" the party, as it won't work. (I see that advice all the time, as if nobody in the party has Spot.) Instead, use a group with a spellcaster, and have that spellcaster tell his compatriots how to kill other spellcasters. (Ahead of combat, of course.) Now attack from two directions, like ... around the corner! The mage won't be moving much if he's summoning stuff, and feel free to use a [i]potion of see invisibility[/i]. I take it your mage isn't smart enough to use [i]nondetection[/i] as well to foil this easy tactic? Or, failing that, use a couple of wizards with [i]see invisible[/i] and [i]baleful polymorph[/i] or other nasty save-or-suffer spells. (Do not use [i]feeblemind![/i] It's obvious, and almost useless against a wide variety of creatures. Do use [i]enervation[/i] if you don't think it's broken. It's bad against fighters but murder against mages.) If he dies, the problem is solved... but I doubt that's going to happen. (Besides, killing PCs is bad DMing.) But you have to admit it would be convenient. More seriously, once you've smacked him down, start distributing [i]potions of see invisibility[/i] among the bad guys. Those things are [i]really[/i] cheap. Since no one is being raised from the dead, this sounds like killing him would be very convenient :) But that's not really allowed. Alter your campaign - set time dependent goals that can't be teleported to, as the players don't know exactly where the goal is. Don't forget to pre-emptively strike against tactics such as ethereal travel. (Eventually your players will figure this out. Find some interesting and nasty looking ethereal monsters - make up a template if you have to - and station them at vulnerable points in the Ethereal Plane. Smart BBEGs will have thought of that ahead of time, so it's not cheating.) Think of other such tactics and strike at them, too. The DnD designers assumed death was infrequent. Say the gear stops functioning - now you've got some magical armor and some pretty looking rings. Well, that's what I'd do, but I'm sick of the overuse of magic items to begin with... Unless the thieves are clairvoyant, they can't know the value of his stuff. I'm a cowardly, selfish mage in my Eberron games, and this tactic doesn't seem to harm the party. (The elven warrior even congratulated me on my tactics out of game. Well, obviously he isn't an elf in real life.) The mage in questino summons while hanging around a corner. I tend to use save-or-suffer spells like [i]glitterdust[/i] and only use direct damage if there's space to do so - which is rare. The rogue grins so much anytime I blind someone that he, at least, isn't going to complain about my tactics. So no, I'm not seeing why other PCs would get ticked. PS I don't buff other PCs. This is a joke, right? If he's summoning something virtually every round, the answer would be yes. Frankly, summons take up a lot of time (they give the sorcerer many actions). I think the other PCs would be upset if he summons more monsters, as that takes away from their time. Besides, once you gain some levels, the summons start to get powerful, and make a big contribution to the battle. And finally, you can't expect the sorcerer to [i]want[/i] to run out of spells until an obvious BBEG battle crops us. The other PCs have to know that, at some point, the sorcerer will need to have some saved up spells to save their lives. I don't know this sorcerer, but I do know golems do [i]not[/i] scare my wizard. I prepare spells that don't allow SR as a matter of course, giving me the ability to handle creatures with SR and golems ... and [i]O's resilient sphere[/i] is useful all the time, anyway. Besides, isn't that a cure that's worse than the disease? It'll be obvious to the sorc player what's going on, and it screws any rogue and cleric PCs as well. This is much better advice. The trap that activates if an arcane caster walks into the room is kind of cheesy - change it to activate when an arcane spell is cast in the room. That's a bit more fair and cleaves closer to the rules. But don't overuse that. The corner trick is harder to do, as the DM doesn't get to make his own terrain in this campaign, but locking doors sounds like it will work. Same here. I can empathise with this player because I'm the same way. I also know how to screw myself in these situations, however. I've even told some of these secrets to my DM :) and I did get chopped up by a warforged barbarian once. (I still too hardly any damage.) Yes, over a short time or even over the whole day. Or perhaps I should say (as a former DM) that it's hard to come up with four interesting and compelling encounters in a day. One of the reasons I switched to running D20 Modern is that I don't have to do four encounters per day. Yay! Use kobolds. Give them a few rogues and sorcerers. I think that might work for Bauglir. It didn't really work for me, however. [/QUOTE]
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