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*Dungeons & Dragons
PCs kill Ometh, leading to open season on the Raven Queen's name
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6174999" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>Sounds like a good game!</p><p></p><p>In my earlier GMing days I think I was more influenced by ideas about the integrity of the gameworld, and the idea of the setting as a "vessel" in which the action took place.</p><p></p><p>Now I'm much more influenced by an approach that I associate with The Forge and modern gaming trends - even though I'm not sure that I could pin it down to anything explicit in the Forge-y games - which sees the setting as a resource for the action to draw on, and that can't be expected to survive actual play as something pristine to be used again for new campaigns.</p><p></p><p>Having said I can't pin it down, here's one idea <a href="http://www.indie-rpgs.com/_articles/narr_essay.html" target="_blank">from Ron Edwards</a> that does inform my current thinking about settings:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><u>Pitfalls of Narrativist game design</u> . . .</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Karaoke. This is a serious problem that arises from the need to sell thick books rather than to teach and develop powerful role-playing. Let's say you have a game that consists of some Premise-heavy characters and a few notes about Situation, and through play, the group generates a hellacious cool Setting as well as theme(s) regarding those characters. Then, publishing your great game, you present that very setting and theme in the text, in detail. . . </p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">[Quoting from Jonathan Tweet in <em>Over the Edge</em>: ] The first time I played OTE, I had a few pages of notes on the background and nothing on the specifics. I made it all up on the spot. Not having anything written as a guide (or crutch), I let my imagination loose. You have the mixed blessing of having many pages of background prepared for you. If you use the information in this book as a springboard for your own wild dreams, then it is a blessing. If you limit yourself to what I've dreamed up, it's a curse. </p></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">All I see, I'm afraid, is the curse. The isolated phrases "mixed blessing" and "(or crutch)" don't hold a lot of water compared to the preceding 152 extraordinarily detailed pages of canonical setting. I'm not saying that improvisation is better or more Narrativist than non-improvisational play. I am saying, however, that if playing this particular game worked so wonderfully to free the participants into wildly successful brainstorming during play ... and since the players were a core source during this event, as evident in the game's Dedication and in various examples of play ... then why present the <em>results</em> of the play-experience as the <em>material</em> for another person's experience?</p><p></p><p>I think quite a bit of RP setting, including in D&D (eg look at the actual history of how Greyhawk was developed) is presenting the result of one group's actual play as the starting point for another group's play. And I'm becoming a bigger fan of working out my setting in play with my own group, with these characters and these ideads in mind. Which tends to mean a new setting for a new campaign, but that's fine. We don't need to karaoke ourselves anymore than we need to karaoke the WotC designers.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6174999, member: 42582"] Sounds like a good game! In my earlier GMing days I think I was more influenced by ideas about the integrity of the gameworld, and the idea of the setting as a "vessel" in which the action took place. Now I'm much more influenced by an approach that I associate with The Forge and modern gaming trends - even though I'm not sure that I could pin it down to anything explicit in the Forge-y games - which sees the setting as a resource for the action to draw on, and that can't be expected to survive actual play as something pristine to be used again for new campaigns. Having said I can't pin it down, here's one idea [url=http://www.indie-rpgs.com/_articles/narr_essay.html]from Ron Edwards[/url] that does inform my current thinking about settings: [indent][u]Pitfalls of Narrativist game design[/u] . . . Karaoke. This is a serious problem that arises from the need to sell thick books rather than to teach and develop powerful role-playing. Let's say you have a game that consists of some Premise-heavy characters and a few notes about Situation, and through play, the group generates a hellacious cool Setting as well as theme(s) regarding those characters. Then, publishing your great game, you present that very setting and theme in the text, in detail. . . [indent][Quoting from Jonathan Tweet in [i]Over the Edge[/i]: ] The first time I played OTE, I had a few pages of notes on the background and nothing on the specifics. I made it all up on the spot. Not having anything written as a guide (or crutch), I let my imagination loose. You have the mixed blessing of having many pages of background prepared for you. If you use the information in this book as a springboard for your own wild dreams, then it is a blessing. If you limit yourself to what I've dreamed up, it's a curse. [/indent] All I see, I'm afraid, is the curse. The isolated phrases "mixed blessing" and "(or crutch)" don't hold a lot of water compared to the preceding 152 extraordinarily detailed pages of canonical setting. I'm not saying that improvisation is better or more Narrativist than non-improvisational play. I am saying, however, that if playing this particular game worked so wonderfully to free the participants into wildly successful brainstorming during play ... and since the players were a core source during this event, as evident in the game's Dedication and in various examples of play ... then why present the [i]results[/i] of the play-experience as the [i]material[/i] for another person's experience?[/indent] I think quite a bit of RP setting, including in D&D (eg look at the actual history of how Greyhawk was developed) is presenting the result of one group's actual play as the starting point for another group's play. And I'm becoming a bigger fan of working out my setting in play with my own group, with these characters and these ideads in mind. Which tends to mean a new setting for a new campaign, but that's fine. We don't need to karaoke ourselves anymore than we need to karaoke the WotC designers. [/QUOTE]
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PCs kill Ometh, leading to open season on the Raven Queen's name
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