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<blockquote data-quote="Moff_Tarkin" data-source="post: 1821443" data-attributes="member: 14175">I know PCs have control over their characters and cant be forced to act a certain way because of a skill but bluff has to work on PCs, otherwise what is the point of having a sense motive skill. My friend admits its because NPCs can bluff PCs but other PCs cant.Lets say that when the party enters a big town the rogue goes off and commits some petty theft to add some clink to his pockets. When he gets back the party fighter asks him where he has been and the rogue says that he stopped off in a local tavern to gather some information on the area. Now the fighter might insist, probably due to out of character knowledge, that he knows the rouge is up to no good and demands an honest answer. I know you dont need a gut feeling or hard evidince to think someone is lying to you. You might just be overly suspicious. But there should be time when the DM says &quot;Hey, you have no reason to belive he is up to no good. You have seen no evidince of wrong doing and you get no gut feeling when talking to him&quot;The hard part is trying to find out if the character is acting according to good role playing or out of character knowledge. It is usually the second. I have notice that whenever a player pulls the DM aside or passes a note some party members start acting suspicious and asking questions. &quot;What are you up to? Do you know anything about this? I know your lying.&quot; I have seen rogues be sneaky behind the everyones back and no one ever questions them until one of the people overhears a private conversation with the DM or sees a note that was passed. Then everyone becomes Adrian Monk. Picking up on every little detail and questioning the characters every move. Always saying, &quot;I dont believe him&quot; if they get anything but an incriminating answer.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Moff_Tarkin, post: 1821443, member: 14175"] I know PCs have control over their characters and cant be forced to act a certain way because of a skill but bluff has to work on PCs, otherwise what is the point of having a sense motive skill. My friend admits its because NPCs can bluff PCs but other PCs cant. Lets say that when the party enters a big town the rogue goes off and commits some petty theft to add some clink to his pockets. When he gets back the party fighter asks him where he has been and the rogue says that he stopped off in a local tavern to gather some information on the area. Now the fighter might insist, probably due to out of character knowledge, that he knows the rouge is up to no good and demands an honest answer. I know you dont need a gut feeling or hard evidince to think someone is lying to you. You might just be overly suspicious. But there should be time when the DM says "Hey, you have no reason to belive he is up to no good. You have seen no evidince of wrong doing and you get no gut feeling when talking to him" The hard part is trying to find out if the character is acting according to good role playing or out of character knowledge. It is usually the second. I have notice that whenever a player pulls the DM aside or passes a note some party members start acting suspicious and asking questions. "What are you up to? Do you know anything about this? I know your lying." I have seen rogues be sneaky behind the everyones back and no one ever questions them until one of the people overhears a private conversation with the DM or sees a note that was passed. Then everyone becomes Adrian Monk. Picking up on every little detail and questioning the characters every move. Always saying, "I dont believe him" if they get anything but an incriminating answer. [/QUOTE]

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