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<blockquote data-quote="zag01" data-source="post: 5085065" data-attributes="member: 21415">I understand all that. I'm not questioning the natural weapon attack penalty but the weapon/unarmed penalty.The part of the PFSRD you emphasized is in conflict with the part of the PFSRD that says: &quot;Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type.&quot;Now I realize this isn't WotC but their rule was the more recent publication supersedes the earlier one. The rule you quote was published in the Core Rulebook and mine is from the Bestiary, which came out later. The fact that both are in the PFSRD muddies the water.I think that if you use your interpretation then you're over penalizing the PC since you're doubling up on the attack penalties. (–4 with your weapon and –5 with your natural attacks) assuming no feats are taken. Even if you take two-weapon fighting your penalties are still –2 and –5. You’d have to also take multiattack to get it down to –2, –2 and that’s assuming you have 3+ natural attacks to qualify for it.If you’re born with a natural attack(s) and trained to use a weapon, two feats seems like a steep price to pay to be able to use them together. Especially when you have to give up one or more natural attacks just to wield the weapon and a character with two weapons only needs one feat to be just as good.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="zag01, post: 5085065, member: 21415"] I understand all that. I'm not questioning the natural weapon attack penalty but the weapon/unarmed penalty. The part of the PFSRD you emphasized is in conflict with the part of the PFSRD that says: "Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures [COLOR="yellow"]attack with their weapons normally [/COLOR]but treat all of their natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type." Now I realize this isn't WotC but their rule was the more recent publication supersedes the earlier one. The rule you quote was published in the Core Rulebook and mine is from the Bestiary, which came out later. The fact that both are in the PFSRD muddies the water. I think that if you use your interpretation then you're over penalizing the PC since you're doubling up on the attack penalties. (–4 with your weapon and –5 with your natural attacks) assuming no feats are taken. Even if you take two-weapon fighting your penalties are still –2 and –5. You’d have to also take multiattack to get it down to –2, –2 and that’s assuming you have 3+ natural attacks to qualify for it. If you’re born with a natural attack(s) and trained to use a weapon, two feats seems like a steep price to pay to be able to use them together. Especially when you have to give up one or more natural attacks just to wield the weapon and a character with two weapons only needs one feat to be just as good. [/QUOTE]

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