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PDF Vs. Print [Slight Rant]
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<blockquote data-quote="The Sigil" data-source="post: 654898" data-attributes="member: 2013"><p>That's just not knowing how to use the format. I assume you also are allowing the HTML file to be structured such that the thing you want to find is 7-9 "pages" (or roughly 300 rows) down the screen.</p><p></p><p>How do you get there in HTML? Two ways... scroll with the mouse... scroll, scroll, scroll - or hit the "spacebar" (in most browsers) to advance a page and do so 7-9 times.</p><p></p><p>How do you get there in PDF? Three ways... scroll with the mouse... scroll, scroll, scroll - or hit the "right arrow" key to advance a page and do so 7-9 times. OR just go to the little box near the bottom of the PDF where it says "Page 1 of 64" and select the number "1" and instead type "<page>" where <page> is the page number you want (e.g., "7").</p><p></p><p>For sake of argument, let's assume it's on page 8.</p><p></p><p>If you use the mouse to scroll, HTML is usually slightly faster.</p><p></p><p>If you use the keyboard, both are equally quick...</p><p>HTML -> Hit "space" 8 times</p><p>PDF -> Hit "right arrow" 8 times.</p><p></p><p>But, if you just select the number and type the page number in the PDF file, it takes one mouse click, one keypress (the page number) and "Enter"</p><p></p><p>Once you learn how to work Acrobat Reader, PDFs are at least as fast (keystrokes) and usually faster (directly entering the page number). I don't think you can have much more empirical proof than what I just gave you - it doesn't take you longer to hit one key (the right arrow) 8 times than another key 8 times (spacebar).</p><p></p><p></p><p>If I used scrollbars, yes.</p><p>If I used keypad, took the same.</p><p>If I directly entered the page number, PDF was faster (note that this is much more pronounced when you shoot for page 40 or 50).</p><p></p><p></p><p>And this differs from HTML how?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>"Left arrow" then "right arrow." Done in about 1/2 second at most (and with my typing speed it takes around 1/10th of a sceond). No chugging involved. A minor inconvenience? Perhaps... but keeps me from having to read long long long lines and having my comprehension drop (as HTML is wont to do).</p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, this differs from HTML how? You still have to scroll down in HTML.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes. The only time a PDF "chugs" is when there is a mess of graphics. Most PDF publishers are smart/polite enough now to have a graphicless "print" version which flips along as fast as HTML.</p><p></p><p></p><p>And when pasting text from HTML, you've never encountered formatting problems? I want your word processor!</p><p></p><p>Columnated text is something of a problem in Acrobat Reader. That is one problem you have not overstated at all. There is, however, a fairly easy workaround to that, too... it's a plugin (but only for Acrobat 4 AFAIK) called "Access" that is meant for those with impaired vision. It changes the "pretty" formatted version of a PDF into a simple text file on screen, automatically formatting the columns correctly, and making for easy copy-pasting.</p><p></p><p>Thus far, most of your complaints do not reveal flaws inherent in PDFs, they just reveal your unfamiliarity with the Acrobat software. I encourage you to try giving a PDF a read again with some of the tips I mentioned for "moving around" the document. A free adventure of mine is at <a href="http://www.cooleys.org/publishing/index.asp?view=stc000" target="_blank">my website</a>. An HTML version of the same can be found <a href="http://www.d20reviews.com/Eric/contest/volcano_c.htm" target="_blank">here at Enworld</a>. Same product, different formats, so I think it's a good "acid test" for comparison. You tell me which one you like better and which one you can move around in more easily, <em>given the tips I mentioned above.</em> Personally, I think the PDF version looks nicer and is easier to navigate.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I think that depends on the Publisher's price and where you go to get it printed. The Book of Eldritch Might II is a good example. The print version can be had for $9.95 at frpgames.com (the cheapest place I know of) while the PDF version (an identical product if printed) will run you $7 at RPGNow.com. If I go to my local copy shop and have them do double-sided printing on 11x17 sheets of paper, that will require 16 sheets at about $0.15 per sheet (YMMV). The cover, color-laser-printed on one side (the "outside"), runs another $2.25 on cardstock (again, YMMV). Stapling this together for a saddle-stitched book? Well, I get it free at my local copier, but it's probably less than a quarter elsewhere. Net price: 16*$0.15 ($2.40) plus $2.25 plus $7 for the PDF... a cost of $11.65. Compared to $9.95 plus shipping from frpgames (and if I go to my FLGS, the MSRP is $12.95), I think the pricing is in fact comparable... and with the PDF version, I also have something from which I can easily copy/paste on my computer. Because of this, I have a hard time buying into the "PDFs are way too expensive" argument.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Most PDFs that I am familiar with have "nifty" color art on the "covers" but the majority of the interior art is black and white, meaning that you really don't need a color printer (printing one or two pages in color at the local copy shop isn't bad). But I think propogation of cheap color laser printers will help some. I really think that b&w laser printers handle the bulk of PDF printwork.</p><p></p><p>Durability may be a concern for larger PDFs, but for smaller ones, which can be saddle-stitched (and in most cases, the print version is saddle-stitched), but there is also the "ease of replacement" argument (which you didn't touch on). What happens when someone spills their Mountain Dew on my book at the gaming table? If I have the PDF version, I go to the copy shop and get another one done ($4.65). If I only have the print version, I have to go plunk down another $9.95 plus shipping. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown :(" data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" /> That's a factor of two!</p><p></p><p>IOW, IMO (and IMO only - this is not empirical fact of course) the quality of a printed PDF is comparable to the quality of a Print Version (unless the PDF relies heavily on color artwork), the price is comparable (again, unless the PDF relies heavily on color artwork), but the "recurring cost" if I want to/need to "buy again" is much less for the PDF - a sort of "insurance policy" on your book, if you will.</p><p></p><p>Hopefully, the above give you a few things to consider. You don't have to change your opinion, but please at least make an effort to understand mine. I have tried as best I can to provide specific counterexamples to your argument (the best method for helping others see your point of view, IMO), rather than employing any sweeping generalizations... because with specific examples you can go "check my work" for yourself and see if I have made any mistakes.</p><p></p><p>This is interesting to hear, however, and I am listening. Keep up the discussion! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>--The Sigil</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The Sigil, post: 654898, member: 2013"] That's just not knowing how to use the format. I assume you also are allowing the HTML file to be structured such that the thing you want to find is 7-9 "pages" (or roughly 300 rows) down the screen. How do you get there in HTML? Two ways... scroll with the mouse... scroll, scroll, scroll - or hit the "spacebar" (in most browsers) to advance a page and do so 7-9 times. How do you get there in PDF? Three ways... scroll with the mouse... scroll, scroll, scroll - or hit the "right arrow" key to advance a page and do so 7-9 times. OR just go to the little box near the bottom of the PDF where it says "Page 1 of 64" and select the number "1" and instead type "<page>" where <page> is the page number you want (e.g., "7"). For sake of argument, let's assume it's on page 8. If you use the mouse to scroll, HTML is usually slightly faster. If you use the keyboard, both are equally quick... HTML -> Hit "space" 8 times PDF -> Hit "right arrow" 8 times. But, if you just select the number and type the page number in the PDF file, it takes one mouse click, one keypress (the page number) and "Enter" Once you learn how to work Acrobat Reader, PDFs are at least as fast (keystrokes) and usually faster (directly entering the page number). I don't think you can have much more empirical proof than what I just gave you - it doesn't take you longer to hit one key (the right arrow) 8 times than another key 8 times (spacebar). If I used scrollbars, yes. If I used keypad, took the same. If I directly entered the page number, PDF was faster (note that this is much more pronounced when you shoot for page 40 or 50). And this differs from HTML how? "Left arrow" then "right arrow." Done in about 1/2 second at most (and with my typing speed it takes around 1/10th of a sceond). No chugging involved. A minor inconvenience? Perhaps... but keeps me from having to read long long long lines and having my comprehension drop (as HTML is wont to do). Again, this differs from HTML how? You still have to scroll down in HTML. Yes. The only time a PDF "chugs" is when there is a mess of graphics. Most PDF publishers are smart/polite enough now to have a graphicless "print" version which flips along as fast as HTML. And when pasting text from HTML, you've never encountered formatting problems? I want your word processor! Columnated text is something of a problem in Acrobat Reader. That is one problem you have not overstated at all. There is, however, a fairly easy workaround to that, too... it's a plugin (but only for Acrobat 4 AFAIK) called "Access" that is meant for those with impaired vision. It changes the "pretty" formatted version of a PDF into a simple text file on screen, automatically formatting the columns correctly, and making for easy copy-pasting. Thus far, most of your complaints do not reveal flaws inherent in PDFs, they just reveal your unfamiliarity with the Acrobat software. I encourage you to try giving a PDF a read again with some of the tips I mentioned for "moving around" the document. A free adventure of mine is at [url="http://www.cooleys.org/publishing/index.asp?view=stc000"]my website[/url]. An HTML version of the same can be found [url="http://www.d20reviews.com/Eric/contest/volcano_c.htm"]here at Enworld[/url]. Same product, different formats, so I think it's a good "acid test" for comparison. You tell me which one you like better and which one you can move around in more easily, [i]given the tips I mentioned above.[/i] Personally, I think the PDF version looks nicer and is easier to navigate. I think that depends on the Publisher's price and where you go to get it printed. The Book of Eldritch Might II is a good example. The print version can be had for $9.95 at frpgames.com (the cheapest place I know of) while the PDF version (an identical product if printed) will run you $7 at RPGNow.com. If I go to my local copy shop and have them do double-sided printing on 11x17 sheets of paper, that will require 16 sheets at about $0.15 per sheet (YMMV). The cover, color-laser-printed on one side (the "outside"), runs another $2.25 on cardstock (again, YMMV). Stapling this together for a saddle-stitched book? Well, I get it free at my local copier, but it's probably less than a quarter elsewhere. Net price: 16*$0.15 ($2.40) plus $2.25 plus $7 for the PDF... a cost of $11.65. Compared to $9.95 plus shipping from frpgames (and if I go to my FLGS, the MSRP is $12.95), I think the pricing is in fact comparable... and with the PDF version, I also have something from which I can easily copy/paste on my computer. Because of this, I have a hard time buying into the "PDFs are way too expensive" argument. Most PDFs that I am familiar with have "nifty" color art on the "covers" but the majority of the interior art is black and white, meaning that you really don't need a color printer (printing one or two pages in color at the local copy shop isn't bad). But I think propogation of cheap color laser printers will help some. I really think that b&w laser printers handle the bulk of PDF printwork. Durability may be a concern for larger PDFs, but for smaller ones, which can be saddle-stitched (and in most cases, the print version is saddle-stitched), but there is also the "ease of replacement" argument (which you didn't touch on). What happens when someone spills their Mountain Dew on my book at the gaming table? If I have the PDF version, I go to the copy shop and get another one done ($4.65). If I only have the print version, I have to go plunk down another $9.95 plus shipping. :( That's a factor of two! IOW, IMO (and IMO only - this is not empirical fact of course) the quality of a printed PDF is comparable to the quality of a Print Version (unless the PDF relies heavily on color artwork), the price is comparable (again, unless the PDF relies heavily on color artwork), but the "recurring cost" if I want to/need to "buy again" is much less for the PDF - a sort of "insurance policy" on your book, if you will. Hopefully, the above give you a few things to consider. You don't have to change your opinion, but please at least make an effort to understand mine. I have tried as best I can to provide specific counterexamples to your argument (the best method for helping others see your point of view, IMO), rather than employing any sweeping generalizations... because with specific examples you can go "check my work" for yourself and see if I have made any mistakes. This is interesting to hear, however, and I am listening. Keep up the discussion! :) --The Sigil [/QUOTE]
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