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<blockquote data-quote="jodyjohnson" data-source="post: 6789181" data-attributes="member: 5590">Over the last year and a half the main complaints and table variance about Beast Master fall into 3 categories IMO:1) Action Economy1a) Verisimilitude problems<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Animal Companion feels like a unresponsive robot - only acting when commanded.&nbsp; Has less autonomy than Mounts, Summons, or Animated creatures.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Both Ranger and Animal Companion can't Dash or run away (Disengage) at the same time until 7th during Encounter action management.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Medium sized characters can't have a Animal Companion as a mount.&nbsp; Medium sized Animal Companions as Mounts (for small races) have restricted action economy.</li>
</ul>1b) DPR problems<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Beastmaster DPR is lower than Hunter DPR.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Feats like Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert, Polearm Mastery, and Great Weapon Mastery decrease the value of Animal Companion attacks.&nbsp; Bonus action attack styles do not interface well with Animal Companion attacks.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">High Rolled stats and focused ASIs decrease the relative value of Companion attacks.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Attack Save DCs don't scale which decreases the value of companion attacks</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Companion can't leverage Hunter's Mark with attacks</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Companion attacks don't scale to match possible magical weapon attacks in the Paragon or higher tier</li>
</ul>2) Features which don't do anything or counter abilities2a) Bonus to Proficient Saves (no beasts have a proficient save)
2b) Hunter's Mark (Share Spells doesn't effect Hunter's Mark which is a key damage add for all Rangers)
2c) Verbal cues for animal direction negate the Stealth features of the class.
3) Animal Companion durability3a) Many DMs run 0hp = dead for non-characters.
3b) Errata fix many DMs do not allow non-characters to regain HP for HD on a short rest, or heal to full overnight (or whatever the default healing mode for PCs is).
3c) Lack of HD at higher levels for short rest healing (usually 1 to 4 HD).
3d) High HP/low AC creatures get shafted compared to High AC/low HP creatures - Hit Points are normalized to 4*Ranger level.
3e) Confusion about what 'hit point maximum' means.My observation is that most fixes focus primarily on the Action Economy with a frequent nod towards trying to normalize DPR with the Hunter subclass.It also seems like frequently players undervalue the stock benefits of the Animal Companion.&nbsp; The companion can make perception checks (often with advantage), move, react (opportunity attacks), block movement, be a target, heal a limited amount on a short rest, heal to full on a long rest, make death saves, and act as a replacement character any rounds where your character is down.All that weighted against the Hunter's ability to make an extra attack some rounds or an extra 1d8 once per turn when the situation is right.Both Bonus action to direct attack, and trading attacks (plus a ranger bonus action attack) tend toward a style where the DPR tries to match the Hunter subclass by gravitating toward big attacks without spending feats or spells.Assume Point buy attack stat of 16 and 14 casting stat for the ranger and no magic weapons:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; For example, Giant Poisonous Snake and Elder.Skywolf system:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3rd:&nbsp; Snake Attack +8 (10' reach) for 8 (1d4+6) plus DC 12 Con save for 10 (3d6) poison, half with a save).&nbsp; +5 Ranger attack (greatsword) 7 (2d6).&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 5th (attack stat ASI):&nbsp; Snake Attack +9 (10' reach) for 9 (1d4+7) plus DC 13 Con save for 10 (3d6) poison, half with a save).&nbsp; Two +7 Ranger attack (greatsword) 11 (2d6+4) and 7 (2d6).&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Hawk Diesel:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3rd:&nbsp; Snake Attack +8 (10' reach) for 8 (1d4+6) plus DC 11 Con save for 10 (3d6) poison, half with a save).&nbsp; +5 Ranger attack (greatsword) 10 (2d6+3).&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 5th (attack stat ASI):&nbsp; Snake Attack +9 (10' reach) for 9 (1d4+7) plus DC 11 Con save for 10 (3d6) poison, half with a save).&nbsp; Two +7 Ranger attack (greatsword) 11 (2d6+4) and 11 (2d6+4).&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Hunter with Hunter's Mark* and Colossus Slayer (Two Hander and 2 weapon style)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2 Hander, 3rd: Bonus to cast or move Hunter's Mark, +5 Ranger attack 13 (3d6+3)&nbsp; Only gets +4 damage (1d8) if someone else has already damaged it.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2 Hander, 5th: Bonus to cast or move Hunter's Mark, two +6 Ranger attack 14 (3d6+4)&nbsp; Only gets +4 damage (1d8) if first hits or someone else has already damaged it.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2 Weapon, 3rd, 1st round: Bonus to cast or move Hunter's Mark, +5 Ranger attack 10 (2d6+3)&nbsp; Only gets +4 damage (1d8) if someone else has already damaged it.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2 Weapon, 3rd, 2nd and following rounds: Two +5 Ranger attack 10 (2d6+3)&nbsp; Only gets +4 damage (1d8) if someone else has already damaged it.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2 Weapon, 5th, 1st round: Bonus to cast or move Hunter's Mark, two +6 Ranger attack 11 (2d6+4)&nbsp; Only gets +4 damage (1d8) if first hits or someone else has already damaged it.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2 Weapon, 5th, 2nd and following: three +6 Ranger attack 11 (2d6+4)&nbsp; Only gets +4 damage (1d8) if first hits or someone else has already damaged it.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Stock PHB Beastmaster (archer or 2 hander)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3rd:&nbsp; Cast or move Hunter's Mark, Snake Attack +8 (10' reach) for 8 (1d4+6) plus DC 11 Con save for 10 (3d6) poison, half with a save) or +5 Ranger attack (greatsword) 13 (3d6+3)/+5 longbow for 10 (1d8+1d6+3).&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 5th (attack stat ASI):&nbsp; Cast or move Hunter's Mark, Snake Attack +9 (10' reach) for 9 (1d4+7) plus DC 11 Con save for 10 (3d6) poison, half with a save) and one +7 Ranger attack (greatsword) 14 (3d6+4)/+7 Longbow for 11 (1d8+1d6+4).&nbsp; Two +7 Ranger attack (greatsword) 14 (3d6+4)/+7 Longbow for 11 (1d8+1d6+4).&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [ATTACH]72705[/ATTACH]Assuming absolutely everything hits and triggers.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; * Hunter's Mark requires maintaining concentration.Swap Snake for Wolf[ATTACH]72706[/ATTACH]Not really exact numbers.&nbsp; Generally pet's have better to hits than the Ranger.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="jodyjohnson, post: 6789181, member: 5590"] Over the last year and a half the main complaints and table variance about Beast Master fall into 3 categories IMO: [B]1) Action Economy[/B] 1a) Verisimilitude problems [LIST] [*]Animal Companion feels like a unresponsive robot - only acting when commanded. Has less autonomy than Mounts, Summons, or Animated creatures. [*]Both Ranger and Animal Companion can't Dash or run away (Disengage) at the same time until 7th during Encounter action management. [*]Medium sized characters can't have a Animal Companion as a mount. Medium sized Animal Companions as Mounts (for small races) have restricted action economy. [/LIST] 1b) DPR problems [LIST] [*]Beastmaster DPR is lower than Hunter DPR. [*]Feats like Sharpshooter, Crossbow Expert, Polearm Mastery, and Great Weapon Mastery decrease the value of Animal Companion attacks. Bonus action attack styles do not interface well with Animal Companion attacks. [*]High Rolled stats and focused ASIs decrease the relative value of Companion attacks. [*]Attack Save DCs don't scale which decreases the value of companion attacks [*]Companion can't leverage Hunter's Mark with attacks [*]Companion attacks don't scale to match possible magical weapon attacks in the Paragon or higher tier [/LIST] [B]2) Features which don't do anything or counter abilities[/B] [INDENT]2a) Bonus to Proficient Saves (no beasts have a proficient save) 2b) Hunter's Mark (Share Spells doesn't effect Hunter's Mark which is a key damage add for all Rangers) 2c) Verbal cues for animal direction negate the Stealth features of the class. [/INDENT] [B]3) Animal Companion durability[/B] [INDENT]3a) Many DMs run 0hp = dead for non-characters. 3b) [I]Errata fix[/I] many DMs do not allow non-characters to regain HP for HD on a short rest, or heal to full overnight (or whatever the default healing mode for PCs is). 3c) Lack of HD at higher levels for short rest healing (usually 1 to 4 HD). 3d) High HP/low AC creatures get shafted compared to High AC/low HP creatures - Hit Points are normalized to 4*Ranger level. 3e) Confusion about what 'hit point maximum' means.[/INDENT] My observation is that most fixes focus primarily on the Action Economy with a frequent nod towards trying to normalize DPR with the Hunter subclass. It also seems like frequently players undervalue the stock benefits of the Animal Companion. The companion can make perception checks (often with advantage), move, react (opportunity attacks), block movement, be a target, heal a limited amount on a short rest, heal to full on a long rest, make death saves, and act as a replacement character any rounds where your character is down. All that weighted against the Hunter's ability to make an extra attack [U]some[/U] rounds or an extra 1d8 once per turn when the situation is right. Both Bonus action to direct attack, and trading attacks (plus a ranger bonus action attack) tend toward a style where the DPR tries to match the Hunter subclass by gravitating toward big attacks without spending feats or spells. Assume Point buy attack stat of 16 and 14 casting stat for the ranger and no magic weapons: For example, Giant Poisonous Snake and Elder.Skywolf system: 3rd: Snake Attack +8 (10' reach) for 8 (1d4+6) plus DC 12 Con save for 10 (3d6) poison, half with a save). +5 Ranger attack (greatsword) 7 (2d6). 5th (attack stat ASI): Snake Attack +9 (10' reach) for 9 (1d4+7) plus DC 13 Con save for 10 (3d6) poison, half with a save). Two +7 Ranger attack (greatsword) 11 (2d6+4) and 7 (2d6). Hawk Diesel: 3rd: Snake Attack +8 (10' reach) for 8 (1d4+6) plus DC 11 Con save for 10 (3d6) poison, half with a save). +5 Ranger attack (greatsword) 10 (2d6+3). 5th (attack stat ASI): Snake Attack +9 (10' reach) for 9 (1d4+7) plus DC 11 Con save for 10 (3d6) poison, half with a save). Two +7 Ranger attack (greatsword) 11 (2d6+4) and 11 (2d6+4). Hunter with Hunter's Mark* and Colossus Slayer (Two Hander and 2 weapon style) 2 Hander, 3rd: Bonus to cast or move Hunter's Mark, +5 Ranger attack 13 (3d6+3) Only gets +4 damage (1d8) if someone else has already damaged it. 2 Hander, 5th: Bonus to cast or move Hunter's Mark, two +6 Ranger attack 14 (3d6+4) Only gets +4 damage (1d8) if first hits or someone else has already damaged it. 2 Weapon, 3rd, 1st round: Bonus to cast or move Hunter's Mark, +5 Ranger attack 10 (2d6+3) Only gets +4 damage (1d8) if someone else has already damaged it. 2 Weapon, 3rd, 2nd and following rounds: Two +5 Ranger attack 10 (2d6+3) Only gets +4 damage (1d8) if someone else has already damaged it. 2 Weapon, 5th, 1st round: Bonus to cast or move Hunter's Mark, two +6 Ranger attack 11 (2d6+4) Only gets +4 damage (1d8) if first hits or someone else has already damaged it. 2 Weapon, 5th, 2nd and following: three +6 Ranger attack 11 (2d6+4) Only gets +4 damage (1d8) if first hits or someone else has already damaged it. Stock PHB Beastmaster (archer or 2 hander) 3rd: Cast or move Hunter's Mark, Snake Attack +8 (10' reach) for 8 (1d4+6) plus DC 11 Con save for 10 (3d6) poison, half with a save) or +5 Ranger attack (greatsword) 13 (3d6+3)/+5 longbow for 10 (1d8+1d6+3). 5th (attack stat ASI): Cast or move Hunter's Mark, Snake Attack +9 (10' reach) for 9 (1d4+7) plus DC 11 Con save for 10 (3d6) poison, half with a save) and one +7 Ranger attack (greatsword) 14 (3d6+4)/+7 Longbow for 11 (1d8+1d6+4). Two +7 Ranger attack (greatsword) 14 (3d6+4)/+7 Longbow for 11 (1d8+1d6+4). [ATTACH=CONFIG]72705._xfImport[/ATTACH] Assuming absolutely everything hits and triggers. * Hunter's Mark requires maintaining concentration. Swap Snake for Wolf [ATTACH=CONFIG]72706._xfImport[/ATTACH] Not really exact numbers. Generally pet's have better to hits than the Ranger. [/QUOTE]

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