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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Grraf" data-source="post: 308164" data-attributes="member: 3791">Posts have been flying fast and furious so I think Oni probably posted without looking through my post.Basically it works like this:The Penumbral lord takes a bit of a hit in terms their magical advancement as they enter the class.If measure power of a class in terms of number and spells castable on a table then the PL does look horribly weak.Learning Shadow magic takes something out of the character. THey basically relearn spell casting gaining only a few new spells of lower power as they learn to channel the shadow.However from about 5th level on Penumbral lords begin to ramp up sharply... and their spell casting prowess becomes unmatched.However a player playing a PL like an Evocation-specialist-sorc-battle-tank type will probably never realize the true potency of the PL.One of my 5th level wizards recently slaughtered a CR 7 creature in two rounds. (it was actually the final encounter in the first chapter of the bane warrens). He cast haste and fly, then hit the fellow with magic missles.The crippling flaw of magic users is running out of spells. The PL, properly played, lacks this restriction.Your regular level wizard does get higher level spells more often. The most appropriate spell isn't aways the highest level one. Though its been improved since 2nd ed a lot of powerful & key combat spells are lower level.Think about it. As long as they have been in gloomy conditions (remember that the descriptions of PL only says that the PL has to be in darkness WHEN THE SPELL IS CAST the target can be outside even) every one of the PLs companions (say 10 bugbears? 5 hill giants? even 20 goblins?) has bulls strength and cats grace. The PL does too, just because. The PL learns MM maximized as a third level spell. Every round that he or she is near darkness thats 25 points of damage. You can try to dispell the darkness but the PL can just gloom and slip away.And come back again in a half and hour and do it again.A PL is always hasted unless they're surprised. They always can cast Shield. They can always summon another monster.And we're talking about a couple of spells: they know more spells, they have other equipment. If someone uses a light spell they're probably ready with wands, allies who cast darkness.Just because its suddenly light they can still cast spells, fight, use items and get away.This isn't a shadow mage. Its not a "wizard with something different". Its a completely different type of caster, with a completely different style.A well played Penumbral Lord is like a Sorceror on crack. Infinite spells, hordes of perpetually buffed minions and the abilty to slip away and fight again later.I'm not saying that its the only good shadow-magic based class. If you want to play a shadow wizard I'd play a specialist mage, drop one school and give yourself all the specialist bonuses with any spell with the Shadow discriptor. That's cool.But the PL is powerful enough already that I'd take a lot of convincing before a player could talk me into even thinking about playing one.ijou</blockquote>

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