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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 3822726" data-attributes="member: 4937">Then may I suggest that you don't need a proof that there is a vocal minority of gamers who don't like and who have never liked D&amp;D and would approve of D&amp;D becoming less like it has always been in order to become more like something it isn't.Hong little 'zinger' is only germane if he believes that there is a majority of players who fit that description.&nbsp; In effect he says, 'Prove that this group is in the minority'.&nbsp; I don't know whether he meant to say, but with Hong it really doesn't matter since he rarely does either.&nbsp; Since you don't believe that the D&amp;D haters are a majority, then you should have no problem accepting that those players are a 'vocal minority'.&nbsp; Your own statement is more or less agreement with the notion of a 'vocal minority'.&nbsp; Whether it is fair to lump Mallus into this minority is an entirely different question, which Hong's little 'zinger' didn't address.&nbsp; However, even if it isn't, its not that hard to come up with examples of comments on these boards of people who would be disappointed with 4e 'only if it didn't slay everyone of D&amp;D's sacred cows'.&nbsp; Comments like that are very suggestive of the idea that they have never liked D&amp;D and would like to see it replaced with something else.Note further than RC didn't say anything about the character of the majority.&nbsp; Whether he thinks that the majority has opinions exactly like RC, I don't really know.&nbsp; Hong's little zinger wasn't, &quot;Prove you have the majority opinion.&quot;&nbsp; I suspect however RC would lump himself into the group that wants to see change and evolution, just not a radical replacement of things that have worked for 30 years.&nbsp; Whether that is a majority I don't know, but it seems pretty close to what you assert - and I agree- is likely to be the majority.RC is pretty hung up on per ecounter abilities, but that is hardly the only area of the game getting radical revision and he is hardly alone in his skepticism of 4e.&nbsp;&nbsp; On the other hand, I think he's well aware that as yet only about 30% (at most) have come out as disliking 4e.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 3822726, member: 4937"] Then may I suggest that you don't need a proof that there is a vocal minority of gamers who don't like and who have never liked D&D and would approve of D&D becoming less like it has always been in order to become more like something it isn't. Hong little 'zinger' is only germane if he believes that there is a majority of players who fit that description. In effect he says, 'Prove that this group is in the minority'. I don't know whether he meant to say, but with Hong it really doesn't matter since he rarely does either. Since you don't believe that the D&D haters are a majority, then you should have no problem accepting that those players are a 'vocal minority'. Your own statement is more or less agreement with the notion of a 'vocal minority'. Whether it is fair to lump Mallus into this minority is an entirely different question, which Hong's little 'zinger' didn't address. However, even if it isn't, its not that hard to come up with examples of comments on these boards of people who would be disappointed with 4e 'only if it didn't slay everyone of D&D's sacred cows'. Comments like that are very suggestive of the idea that they have never liked D&D and would like to see it replaced with something else. Note further than RC didn't say anything about the character of the majority. Whether he thinks that the majority has opinions exactly like RC, I don't really know. Hong's little zinger wasn't, "Prove you have the majority opinion." I suspect however RC would lump himself into the group that wants to see change and evolution, just not a radical replacement of things that have worked for 30 years. Whether that is a majority I don't know, but it seems pretty close to what you assert - and I agree- is likely to be the majority. RC is pretty hung up on per ecounter abilities, but that is hardly the only area of the game getting radical revision and he is hardly alone in his skepticism of 4e. On the other hand, I think he's well aware that as yet only about 30% (at most) have come out as disliking 4e. [/QUOTE]

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