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<blockquote data-quote="Patryn of Elvenshae" data-source="post: 3827878" data-attributes="member: 23094">It's rather simple.&nbsp; Don't make basic, fundamental abilities of character classes useless in fairly common situations.Congratulations.Ah, yes - that most common of D&amp;D adventure tropes ...EDIT, for further explanation:Look - I understand that there's nothing the rules can do to keep DMs from throwing wacky, off-the-wall situations at their PCs and that those PCs may be horribly unsuited for that situation, as your example amply demonstrates (though, even then, hints of Blazing Saddles may have saved the day ...).But we're not discussing the esoteric.We're talking about almost the most popular D&amp;D adventure set-up ever: get a macguffin from a tomb, which is probably guarded by a foozle.Because it's a tomb, you're going to end up fighting lots of undead.&nbsp; The foozle himself will be undead, or possibly an evil cultist who is responsible for the undead you're fighting.Is there any DM who has not run a delve-into-a-tomb, fight-the-undead-guards adventure at least once?This sort of adventure marginalizes at least one base class during the most time-intensive part of the D&amp;D game: combat.&nbsp; It says, &quot;Sorry, rogue, your combat abilities are not going to be useful for quite some time.&quot;3E does this adventure better than earlier versions, because the rogue at least can use a mace proficiently (but, even then, there are issues).That does not mean, however, that I don't believe 4E has room to do it even better.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Patryn of Elvenshae, post: 3827878, member: 23094"] It's rather simple. Don't make basic, fundamental abilities of character classes useless in fairly common situations. Congratulations. Ah, yes - that most common of D&D adventure tropes ... EDIT, for further explanation: Look - I understand that there's nothing the rules can do to keep DMs from throwing wacky, off-the-wall situations at their PCs and that those PCs may be horribly unsuited for that situation, as your example amply demonstrates (though, even then, hints of [i]Blazing Saddles[/i] may have saved the day ...). But we're not discussing the esoteric. We're talking about almost the most popular D&D adventure set-up ever: get a macguffin from a tomb, which is probably guarded by a foozle. Because it's a tomb, you're going to end up fighting lots of undead. The foozle himself will be undead, or possibly an evil cultist who is responsible for the undead you're fighting. Is there any DM who has [b]not[/b] run a delve-into-a-tomb, fight-the-undead-guards adventure at least once? This sort of adventure marginalizes at least one base class during the most time-intensive part of the D&D game: combat. It says, "Sorry, rogue, your combat abilities are not going to be useful for quite some time." 3E does this adventure better than earlier versions, because the rogue at least can use a mace proficiently (but, even then, there are issues). That does not mean, however, that I don't believe 4E has room to do it even better. [/QUOTE]

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