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Message: <blockquote data-quote="King-Panda" data-source="post: 4618093" data-attributes="member: 32115">Normally, a character who is out of combat and not actively searching for hidden doors, items, or traps uses their passive perception (PP) to determine if they see said items. There doesn't seem to be a "Take 20" rule in 4th edition, which brings me to my issue.    If a player wants to spend more time and energy looking for something, they can roll a perception check in what amounts to a 50% chance of getting higher than their PP, and a 45% of getting lower than their PP. How can someone - who is looking harder than they would normally - do worse than they would if they weren't paying as much attention?   I can understand having to roll for thing like listening over the sound of battle, or rolling if you are vision is obscured/blocked/etc, but extensively searching a room up and down should not have this penalty.   At first I thought I'd just bring back Taking 20 (and I might), but I thought of a possible solution. A player could roll 1d10 and add it to their PP when searching (Not in danger, with no chance of "failure") a room/hallway/etc for hidden things. This would still involve the luck of a roll, while allowing for a fluff reason to mesh with the mechanics (a more extensive search has a better chance of success).  If I'm missing something, please let me know. Otherwise, how do you all as DM's handle this in your games?</blockquote>