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<blockquote data-quote="haakon1" data-source="post: 3752695" data-attributes="member: 25619">It was me you were discussing with before, so I assume you mean me and people like me who are fans of AD&amp;D.&nbsp; Certainly, I'd like to be called a grognard.What's odd about our discussion is that I'm not actually bitter at all.&nbsp; The 3.*e games I have personally played in have been run more-or-less to my satisfaction, which I'd like to think is 3e rules, 1e feel.As a DM most of the time, who only runs games for friends, it's fairly easy to get the feel I want.As a player part of the time, I'm OK with the other guys DM style.&nbsp; He likes to emphasize combat over setting and does not like role-playing at all, which is fine as far as it goes, but gets a little old at times -- a bit too computer-game like.&nbsp; Also, he tends to cheat in our favor a lot.&nbsp; It's had too many characters collapse with -7 hp for it to be a statistical accident.&nbsp; When he turns off the holodeck safety proctocols, it's more fun, even though we did have one TPK.Neither as a player or DM in 3e have I seen &quot;treasure audits&quot; or a designed prevention of overmatched opponents.&nbsp; Describing some of the fights I've run here, I've been told I'm a killer DM (8 wights versus 8 5th level PCs I believe was the battle people got upset about), but we've lost very few PCs, with relatively little fudging, so I don't really think so.Anyhow, I think the best &quot;safety&quot; for PC's is good players, who are careful and thoughtful and avoid danger they can't handle, rather than changes to the rules set.The reason I'm adamant about removing the safety helmets is that I fear the game would be a lot less fun if it were safe.&nbsp; And I want the young'uns of the next generation to have as much fun and take as many knocks as my generation (started in 1981) did.Where grognarditude comes into it is my assumption/observation that the REAL world is, in general, a lot more safety conscious and into self-esteem trophies for participating than it was when I was a padawan.&nbsp; I fear kids will get out their &quot;need for speed&quot; in more destructive ways than losing a 7th level paladin to Orcus, like I did with my first character.&nbsp;&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />&nbsp;&nbsp; Much better to discover you're not invulernable that way, then behind the wheel of a car, for example.&nbsp; Plus, learning how to think your way out of traps and to be &quot;always prepared&quot;, that life isn't level-fair and doesn't revolve around you and your needs and abilities, those all seem like good and important life lessons.&nbsp; &lt;shrug&gt;&nbsp; I don't know, but it seems like D&amp;D was a REALLY GOOD THING for the kids I grew up with.&nbsp; I hope it isn't getting nerfed into something that no longer teaches life lessons . . .</blockquote>

[QUOTE="haakon1, post: 3752695, member: 25619"] It was me you were discussing with before, so I assume you mean me and people like me who are fans of AD&D. Certainly, I'd like to be called a grognard. What's odd about our discussion is that I'm not actually bitter at all. The 3.*e games I have personally played in have been run more-or-less to my satisfaction, which I'd like to think is 3e rules, 1e feel. As a DM most of the time, who only runs games for friends, it's fairly easy to get the feel I want. As a player part of the time, I'm OK with the other guys DM style. He likes to emphasize combat over setting and does not like role-playing at all, which is fine as far as it goes, but gets a little old at times -- a bit too computer-game like. Also, he tends to cheat in our favor a lot. It's had too many characters collapse with -7 hp for it to be a statistical accident. When he turns off the holodeck safety proctocols, it's more fun, even though we did have one TPK. Neither as a player or DM in 3e have I seen "treasure audits" or a designed prevention of overmatched opponents. Describing some of the fights I've run here, I've been told I'm a killer DM (8 wights versus 8 5th level PCs I believe was the battle people got upset about), but we've lost very few PCs, with relatively little fudging, so I don't really think so. Anyhow, I think the best "safety" for PC's is good players, who are careful and thoughtful and avoid danger they can't handle, rather than changes to the rules set. The reason I'm adamant about removing the safety helmets is that I fear the game would be a lot less fun if it were safe. And I want the young'uns of the next generation to have as much fun and take as many knocks as my generation (started in 1981) did. Where grognarditude comes into it is my assumption/observation that the REAL world is, in general, a lot more safety conscious and into self-esteem trophies for participating than it was when I was a padawan. I fear kids will get out their "need for speed" in more destructive ways than losing a 7th level paladin to Orcus, like I did with my first character. :) Much better to discover you're not invulernable that way, then behind the wheel of a car, for example. Plus, learning how to think your way out of traps and to be "always prepared", that life isn't level-fair and doesn't revolve around you and your needs and abilities, those all seem like good and important life lessons. <shrug> I don't know, but it seems like D&D was a REALLY GOOD THING for the kids I grew up with. I hope it isn't getting nerfed into something that no longer teaches life lessons . . . [/QUOTE]

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