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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 8203347" data-attributes="member: 7006">I'm also a diehard for what [USER=71699]@clearstream[/USER] put forth.  In my games, Perception is for finding creatures that are hiding, Investigation for finding objects that are secret or hidden.  Easy, simple, and takes no time in knowing which one to use in whatever situation we are in.As far as Passives are concerned... I just think of them as the target DCs of what my NPCs are using skills against.  Just like when the players use their skills against target DCs I have established.  So if my goblins are trying to hide, they make Dexterity (Stealth) checks and the DC to avoid notice is the Passive Perceptions of the PCs.  Likewise, if I place a secret door in a dungeon, I'll roll an internal "behind the scenes" check (probably something like Intelligence (Deception) or something) to represent how well the designer of that secret door did in masking it from view (and thus creating the DC).  Then if any of the PCs walk by it, their Passive Investigation might notice it if the "original designer" did a really bad job of making it secret.But of course if the Intelligence (Deception) "check" was good and the DC for that secret door is high enough that no PC's Passive Investigation notices it with no active action on their part... they as characters are still allowed to make a choice to actively look in an area to try and find it.  At that point, the PCs roll Intelligence (Investigation).  And since passives are 10 + the modifiers... the PCs have about a 50% chance to roll higher than 10, and thus their checks to find the secret door improve.  If they roll under 10, then it doesn't matter... their active looking just did not do any better than what they already passively sensed.</blockquote>

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