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Message: <blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 8204110" data-attributes="member: 92511">There can be totally appropriate and legitimate overlap with Perception and Investigation. It's a case-by-case, dependent on the situation basis.The party enters a room in which a locked secret door with a special trigger/opening lever secretted on the bookshelf (let's say an statuette of some unremarkable material...we'll just say, some polished grey stone in the shape of a bull. shrug Why not?).You walk into the room and wander around, Passive Perception checks for all. You might notice something about the section of floor or wall that gets your attention. You might notice a small unremarkable stone statue on the shelf among some old musty tomes and what appears to be a rotted wooden box. You might notice a vague salty odor or mildly damp feeling in the air that is different from the corridor you just left.Player 1: [typical ask] "Do I notice anything?" or "I am perceiving." or something similar. = Activates an "active" Perception roll. Is there a sliver of light along the floor? A nearly imperceptible draft or waft of odor from something beyond the door? Does the wall material feel different than the surrounding wall? Some muffled sound to be heard? A scuffed area on this particular section of the floor? You find no way to open this section of wall, but you're positive there's something beyond this part of the wall. Seems to be locked.Player 2: "I am poking around/rifling/examining the room." or "I search the room." or something similiar = Activates an Investigation roll. You are actively looking and checking for anything notable or amiss. There are scuff marks on this section of floor. Carefully going over that section of wall above the scuffs, you notice an intermittent draft of cool, vaguely sea-scented air. There's no discernable way to open or release this section of wall. Rifling the desk drawers reveal no keys or notes regarding the secret door. Everything on the shelf is notably dusty except this fist-sized stone bull statue.   This door can be revealed by a successful roll of the 3 kinds. Once detected, one might Perceive, but can not Investigate, what is beyond it. One might Investigate, but can not Perceive (passive or active), to find the opening mechanism (moving the bull statue or picking it up or whatever) and determine how to open it.I would say there is no such thing as "passive investigation." You can't be, I would say for my games/rulings, "investigating" something without being deliberate about it.</blockquote>

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