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<blockquote data-quote="Starfox" data-source="post: 8205437" data-attributes="member: 2303">To me, this is the difference between old school and other play styles. In strict old school play,. the players state action their character does in detail, and the GM then adjudicates the result. In an extreme version of this style, there is no need for the characters to have skills; that is on the players.&nbsp; In strict &quot;new school&quot; (never seen that term thus used) the characters have skills and every action is determined solely by the character's abilities. The players job is to move the playing piece. Obviously, these are extremes and almost everyone uses some kind of hybrid, which I feel is how it should be. So, in your example, a hybrid might work like this: The GM presents the puzzle and let the players attempt to solve it. If they are stymied, the GM lets them roll Investigation (or whatever) and hands out extra clues. Repeat until the situation is resolved in one way or another. In many cases, the game would come to a standstill if the players fail entirely, so the GM continues handing out clues until they succeed or force them to pay some price - use a scroll of knock, spend 2 days hacking the door away (fail forward). To me this is a part of the illusionism you use as a GM - you give the players enough clues that they can feel clever because they solved the problem &quot;themselves&quot;. Others may perfer other styles, perhaps more confrontational.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Starfox, post: 8205437, member: 2303"] To me, this is the difference between old school and other play styles. In strict old school play,. the players state action their character does in detail, and the GM then adjudicates the result. In an extreme version of this style, there is no need for the characters to have skills; that is on the [I]players[/I]. In strict "new school" (never seen that term thus used) the characters have skills and every action is determined solely by the character's abilities. The players job is to move the playing piece. Obviously, these are extremes and almost everyone uses some kind of hybrid, which I feel is how it should be. So, in your example, a hybrid might work like this: The GM presents the puzzle and let the players attempt to solve it. If they are stymied, the GM lets them roll Investigation (or whatever) and hands out extra clues. Repeat until the situation is resolved in one way or another. In many cases, the game would come to a standstill if the players fail entirely, so the GM continues handing out clues until they succeed or force them to pay some price - use a scroll of knock, spend 2 days hacking the door away (fail forward). To me this is a part of the illusionism you use as a GM - you give the players enough clues that they can feel clever because they solved the problem "themselves". Others may perfer other styles, perhaps more confrontational. [/QUOTE]

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