Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Perception should be an intelligence proficiency
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="iserith" data-source="post: 7580501" data-attributes="member: 97077"><p>Describing what you want to do amounts to stating a goal and an approach to that goal. It does not have to be a complicated or technical statement or require any expertise on the part of the player. "I want to make a Stealth check" is not a statement of goal and approach. At best it just implies one. What it is is a player failing to perform his or her role in the game and that slack is often picked up by the DM, who in my experience will then describe what the character does. This gets the roles of DM and player exactly backwards. It is a common way to play but it really mixes up the play loop in a way that negatively impacts the play experience in my view.</p><p></p><p>That said, a player can <em>absolutely </em>describe a task in such a way as to fail automatically, no roll. It's part of the DM's role to make that judgment when determining whether or not there is uncertainty as to the outcome. This is discussed in the PHB and DMG both.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>According to the play loop, the DM can't narrate the outcome of the adventurer's actions until the player has describe what he or she wants to do. So if this Sherlock Holmes character wants a crack at finding all the clues or whatever, the player needs to describe the goal and approach. Only then can the DM take into account the uncertainty of the outcome and, if necessary, assign an ability check accordingly.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Absolutely nobody takes the position that "you should have to actually have the skills of your make believe character in order to roleplay that make believe character when they are using those skills." But the player does need to describe what he or she wants to do. That is the player's role in this game.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="iserith, post: 7580501, member: 97077"] Describing what you want to do amounts to stating a goal and an approach to that goal. It does not have to be a complicated or technical statement or require any expertise on the part of the player. "I want to make a Stealth check" is not a statement of goal and approach. At best it just implies one. What it is is a player failing to perform his or her role in the game and that slack is often picked up by the DM, who in my experience will then describe what the character does. This gets the roles of DM and player exactly backwards. It is a common way to play but it really mixes up the play loop in a way that negatively impacts the play experience in my view. That said, a player can [I]absolutely [/I]describe a task in such a way as to fail automatically, no roll. It's part of the DM's role to make that judgment when determining whether or not there is uncertainty as to the outcome. This is discussed in the PHB and DMG both. According to the play loop, the DM can't narrate the outcome of the adventurer's actions until the player has describe what he or she wants to do. So if this Sherlock Holmes character wants a crack at finding all the clues or whatever, the player needs to describe the goal and approach. Only then can the DM take into account the uncertainty of the outcome and, if necessary, assign an ability check accordingly. Absolutely nobody takes the position that "you should have to actually have the skills of your make believe character in order to roleplay that make believe character when they are using those skills." But the player does need to describe what he or she wants to do. That is the player's role in this game. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Perception should be an intelligence proficiency
Top