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<blockquote data-quote="Caliban" data-source="post: 7053440" data-attributes="member: 284">Eh, anytime you have to start your argument with &quot;Linguistically&quot; you lose points.&nbsp; Especially when you go on to say it's &quot;pretty close&quot; to a dictionary definition.&nbsp; Close only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades.&nbsp; &nbsp; If they meant Investigation to mean &quot;searching and examination and research&quot; why didn't they use any of those terms?&nbsp; Since the text of the skill doesn't actually include any of the terms you are using (examine, search, or research) you can choose assign those words to it and use whatever definition of them you want.&nbsp; Does it really do anything to bring clarity though?&nbsp; It seems like you are just confusing the issue by adding more words instead of just using the actual text. Still, despite stooping to semantics and the dictionary, you made some good points.&nbsp; As I said earlier - the explanation is short and vague enough that you can read quite a bit extra into it if you want.&nbsp; &nbsp; I actually use Investigate much the way you describe at the end of your post when I'm DM'ing.&nbsp;&nbsp; I just don't use the terms you added to the skill description.&nbsp;&nbsp; (Most often I have players use Investigation as a kind of &quot;give me a clue&quot; skill when they are stuck on something, or after they have a made a History/Nature/Arcana check to help them fill in the blanks in the lore.)I think my main problem with using Investigate to find things instead of Perception (other than the fact that finding stuff is what perception IS FOR) is that I've had bad experiences with DM's who used the skills incorrectly.&nbsp;&nbsp; They decided that Perception was visual and sound, and Investigation involved physically touching whatever you were touching, and some traps could only be found by using the correct skill, and if you used the wrong one you either didn't find the trap (using investigate instead of perception), or you set it off (using investigate instead of perception).&nbsp;&nbsp; Not your problem, but I found the &quot;gotcha&quot; nature of it very annoying and now I do not like using Investigate for finding traps in any way.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Caliban, post: 7053440, member: 284"] Eh, anytime you have to start your argument with "Linguistically" you lose points. Especially when you go on to say it's "pretty close" to a dictionary definition. Close only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades. If they meant Investigation to mean "searching and examination and research" why didn't they use any of those terms? Since the text of the skill doesn't actually include any of the terms you are using (examine, search, or research) you can choose assign those words to it and use whatever definition of them you want. Does it really do anything to bring clarity though? It seems like you are just confusing the issue by adding more words instead of just using the actual text. Still, despite stooping to semantics and the dictionary, you made some good points. As I said earlier - the explanation is short and vague enough that you can read quite a bit extra into it if you want. I actually use Investigate much the way you describe at the end of your post when I'm DM'ing. I just don't use the terms you added to the skill description. (Most often I have players use Investigation as a kind of "give me a clue" skill when they are stuck on something, or after they have a made a History/Nature/Arcana check to help them fill in the blanks in the lore.) I think my main problem with using Investigate to find things instead of Perception (other than the fact that finding stuff is what perception [B]IS FOR[/B]) is that I've had bad experiences with DM's who used the skills incorrectly. They decided that Perception was visual and sound, and Investigation involved physically touching whatever you were touching, and some traps could only be found by using the correct skill, and if you used the wrong one you either didn't find the trap (using investigate instead of perception), or you set it off (using investigate instead of perception). Not your problem, but I found the "gotcha" nature of it very annoying and now I do not like using Investigate for finding traps in any way. [/QUOTE]

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