Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Peregrine's Nest: How Vampire Got Its Groove Back
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Corone" data-source="post: 9544803" data-attributes="member: 6806393"><p style="text-align: center">[ATTACH=full]390848[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p>This irregular column looks at aspects of design and system that a particular game does especially well. In this case I’m looking at <strong><em>Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition.</em></strong></p><h3><strong>Developing Background</strong></h3><p>First off, kudos for the designers for not retconning the game background in the new edition. They took the existing canon of the setting and moved it along a few years with surprisingly few momentous events. While there are a lot of changes, most are ripples from the arrival of the Second Inquisition and the beckoning. So you can pick up this game where you left off instead of trying to relearn how everything works (and has supposedly always worked).</p><h3><strong>The Tremere Problem</strong></h3><p>Clan Tremere is often a problem in any game of <strong><em>Vampire</em></strong>. Their close knit structure and focus on clan loyalty often pushed Tremere players to side with their clan over the player character group (coterie). While most clans offered a little of this, Clan Tremere not only encouraged this but demanded it. Fifth edition solved this brutally but effectively, by blowing up Tremere central office. The main chantry in Vienna is destroyed in the new timeline, eradicating the Tremere leadership. So Tremere characters still have clan backing and are perfectly viable, but their clan doesn’t have the same central authority to enforce loyalty as before. In addition the destruction of the Vienna chantry is a wakeup call for how dangerous the Second Inquisition can be.</p><h3><strong>The Beckoning</strong></h3><p>The Beckoning is a strange call that draws powerful vampire elders towards the Middle East where supposedly ancient vampires are engaging in a shadow war. This manages to solve two issues that often came up in earlier games of vampire.</p><p></p><p>The first was the concrete nature of vampire society. With elders lasting for centuries, and clinging onto power with an iron grip, there was nothing for new (player character) kindred to try and claim. There was no outlet for vampiric ambition. In early games that’s fine, teaching the player characters there are much bigger fish out there is good. But it soon became clear that advancement was not just difficult but almost impossible. The Beckoning solves this problem by making the elders walk away. Vast power vacuums open up now and again, leaving the player characters an opening, if they are quick enough to claim them.</p><p></p><p>The second issue was that of coterie versus clan. While Clan Tremere were the worst, in most games, most player characters tended to shift their loyalty away from the PC coterie towards their clan. The Beckoning doesn’t stop that, but does give the player characters a reason to stick together. If they are going to claim something an elder left, they are going to have to do it together. One elder is worth one PC coterie. So they can still stab each other in the back or be loyal to their clan, but if they are to keep their hunting ground and other shared assets they have to work together.</p><h3><strong>Hunger Choices</strong></h3><p>Many games in previous editions moved towards ‘goth superheroes’ instead of vampires. The new system for how blood is used to power abilities is better at reminding players their characters are hungry predators. First off, the amount of blood it costs to activates any power is now variable. You make a test each time you use it and it may, or may not, cost you. So it is impossible to really tell just how much blood your character will need. But given your character might not suffer a cost at all; this doesn’t nerf their powers or make them use them any less.</p><p></p><p>Blood has also moved from a pool, to a hunger mechanic, which is one of my favourite things. Hunting in previous editions was basically filling the gas tank. You got some blood and the predictability of the cost of your powers made it easy to tell how long you’d need before hunting. In 5th edition, when a power costs you blood, your dice are swapped out for hunger dice. Only if these roll certain results do the more bestial aspects of your character come to the fore, but they still work as standard dice too. Feeding reverts these dice to normal, but each player can decide for themselves when their character is "too hungry." It’s up to them to decide how much to risk their character losing control. It also means that you cannot ever forget your character’s hunger. With a blood pool you could just check occasionally how full it is. But with hunger dice your character’s hunger is a brooding presence in every dice roll.</p><p></p><p>It is also worth mentioning Predator Types are another way the game pushes focus back onto the feeding and hunger aspect of characters. These are not just narrative options, but grant the extra skills and even discipline points that allow the character to be effective as that sort of hunter. This bakes the idea into character creation that your character is a predator and not just an immortal.</p><h3><strong>Freeform Clans</strong></h3><p>In the original game where only seven of the thirteen clans were available and everything was focused on the Camarilla, there wasn’t a problem. But as the game has expanded and developed, more clans have been revealed. Not every clan is in every sect, so different games limited clan choice. Post Second Inquisition the Camarilla and the Anarchs are on a recruitment drive. While they expect a new level of dedication, any character might join either sect, opening up potentially all the clans for any game as player characters.</p><p></p><p>This game of clan musical chairs also places the Brujah and Gangrel among the Anarchs, which also makes more sense given how the game has developed. The only problem there is that the physical clans are all in one sect, potentially why the Lasombra (with Potence) have joined the Camarilla from a design perspective. But again, with anyone potentially able to join any sect, the only difference this makes is how much clan back up you might receive depending on your choices.</p><h3>Bringing the Masquerade Into the Modern Age</h3><p><strong><em>Vampire </em></strong>remains one of my favourite games of all time. But after years of game play certain problems became evident that 5th Edition did an excellent job of addressing. It's truly a masterclass of design, demonstrating how a game can improve from years of playtesting and feedback.</p><p></p><p><strong>YOUR TURN: What other new editions of a game really fixed a particular problem? </strong></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Corone, post: 9544803, member: 6806393"] [CENTER][ATTACH type="full" alt="81CoQE83CyL.jpg"]390848[/ATTACH][/CENTER] This irregular column looks at aspects of design and system that a particular game does especially well. In this case I’m looking at [B][I]Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition.[/I][/B] [HEADING=2][B]Developing Background[/B][/HEADING] First off, kudos for the designers for not retconning the game background in the new edition. They took the existing canon of the setting and moved it along a few years with surprisingly few momentous events. While there are a lot of changes, most are ripples from the arrival of the Second Inquisition and the beckoning. So you can pick up this game where you left off instead of trying to relearn how everything works (and has supposedly always worked). [HEADING=2][B]The Tremere Problem[/B][/HEADING] Clan Tremere is often a problem in any game of [B][I]Vampire[/I][/B]. Their close knit structure and focus on clan loyalty often pushed Tremere players to side with their clan over the player character group (coterie). While most clans offered a little of this, Clan Tremere not only encouraged this but demanded it. Fifth edition solved this brutally but effectively, by blowing up Tremere central office. The main chantry in Vienna is destroyed in the new timeline, eradicating the Tremere leadership. So Tremere characters still have clan backing and are perfectly viable, but their clan doesn’t have the same central authority to enforce loyalty as before. In addition the destruction of the Vienna chantry is a wakeup call for how dangerous the Second Inquisition can be. [HEADING=2][B]The Beckoning[/B][/HEADING] The Beckoning is a strange call that draws powerful vampire elders towards the Middle East where supposedly ancient vampires are engaging in a shadow war. This manages to solve two issues that often came up in earlier games of vampire. The first was the concrete nature of vampire society. With elders lasting for centuries, and clinging onto power with an iron grip, there was nothing for new (player character) kindred to try and claim. There was no outlet for vampiric ambition. In early games that’s fine, teaching the player characters there are much bigger fish out there is good. But it soon became clear that advancement was not just difficult but almost impossible. The Beckoning solves this problem by making the elders walk away. Vast power vacuums open up now and again, leaving the player characters an opening, if they are quick enough to claim them. The second issue was that of coterie versus clan. While Clan Tremere were the worst, in most games, most player characters tended to shift their loyalty away from the PC coterie towards their clan. The Beckoning doesn’t stop that, but does give the player characters a reason to stick together. If they are going to claim something an elder left, they are going to have to do it together. One elder is worth one PC coterie. So they can still stab each other in the back or be loyal to their clan, but if they are to keep their hunting ground and other shared assets they have to work together. [HEADING=2][B]Hunger Choices[/B][/HEADING] Many games in previous editions moved towards ‘goth superheroes’ instead of vampires. The new system for how blood is used to power abilities is better at reminding players their characters are hungry predators. First off, the amount of blood it costs to activates any power is now variable. You make a test each time you use it and it may, or may not, cost you. So it is impossible to really tell just how much blood your character will need. But given your character might not suffer a cost at all; this doesn’t nerf their powers or make them use them any less. Blood has also moved from a pool, to a hunger mechanic, which is one of my favourite things. Hunting in previous editions was basically filling the gas tank. You got some blood and the predictability of the cost of your powers made it easy to tell how long you’d need before hunting. In 5th edition, when a power costs you blood, your dice are swapped out for hunger dice. Only if these roll certain results do the more bestial aspects of your character come to the fore, but they still work as standard dice too. Feeding reverts these dice to normal, but each player can decide for themselves when their character is "too hungry." It’s up to them to decide how much to risk their character losing control. It also means that you cannot ever forget your character’s hunger. With a blood pool you could just check occasionally how full it is. But with hunger dice your character’s hunger is a brooding presence in every dice roll. It is also worth mentioning Predator Types are another way the game pushes focus back onto the feeding and hunger aspect of characters. These are not just narrative options, but grant the extra skills and even discipline points that allow the character to be effective as that sort of hunter. This bakes the idea into character creation that your character is a predator and not just an immortal. [HEADING=2][B]Freeform Clans[/B][/HEADING] In the original game where only seven of the thirteen clans were available and everything was focused on the Camarilla, there wasn’t a problem. But as the game has expanded and developed, more clans have been revealed. Not every clan is in every sect, so different games limited clan choice. Post Second Inquisition the Camarilla and the Anarchs are on a recruitment drive. While they expect a new level of dedication, any character might join either sect, opening up potentially all the clans for any game as player characters. This game of clan musical chairs also places the Brujah and Gangrel among the Anarchs, which also makes more sense given how the game has developed. The only problem there is that the physical clans are all in one sect, potentially why the Lasombra (with Potence) have joined the Camarilla from a design perspective. But again, with anyone potentially able to join any sect, the only difference this makes is how much clan back up you might receive depending on your choices. [HEADING=2]Bringing the Masquerade Into the Modern Age[/HEADING] [B][I]Vampire [/I][/B]remains one of my favourite games of all time. But after years of game play certain problems became evident that 5th Edition did an excellent job of addressing. It's truly a masterclass of design, demonstrating how a game can improve from years of playtesting and feedback. [B]YOUR TURN: What other new editions of a game really fixed a particular problem? [/B] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Peregrine's Nest: How Vampire Got Its Groove Back
Top