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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hawken" data-source="post: 4856420" data-attributes="member: 23619">And you appear to be suffering from underestimatius excessivus! The best in the world ARE the highest level. That's why they're the Best. No one else can match them. Using Star Wars (comes easiest to mind), Yoda and Palpatine are portrayed as 20th level characters because each is the best, the pinnacle of Jedi/Sith. Back to D&D, Raistlin was around 20th or so before going back in time and he was the Best. After going back in time, he sucked out Fistandantilus' soul and gained even more levels from that and became even better (way Epic!). Zaknafein (Driz'zt's daddy) was the best swordsman in Menzoberranzan and was a 25th level fighter (back in the fun days of 1e/2e). Elminster is/was the best in the Realms, and he's been consistently portrayed as well over 20th level. Same with that Mordenkainen guy. Vecna, the lichiest lich of all liches has always been over 20th or so. Its not level inflation, its accuracy. The levels in D&D translate into raw power and ability to deal damage because its a game about killing bigger and badder monsters. In our world, levels would translate into skill and talent (since no one can call down flaming rocks out of the sky by waggling their fingers!). And those musicians are the best in their respective fields. They didn't do it overnight, they've been at it all their lives, so, yeah, they're Epic or right on the cusp. Ghandi may not have had 200hp, but he was epic--he liberated the second most populated country in the world! Elvis too! The Beatles! Hitler and Stalin were epic figures also--one single person responsible for the deaths they each caused, you cannot do those things and NOT be epic! Gen. McArthur (sp?) was the Supreme Commander of Allied forces in the Pacific during WWII--one man in charge of the armies and navies of multiple countries!--tell me that's not epic!If you want to compare levels to real life you have to drop game mechanics and consider skill and ability in relation to others. By RAW, no one can swim miles, hold their breath for 5 minutes (or even 3), run for miles without stopping (while heavily encumbered), make death attacks on multiple targets without studying for 18 seconds, yet those are things that SEALS, Rangers and Special Forces are able to do by second nature. No one in real life can swing a greatsword four or five times in the span of 6 seconds, or make up to 9 attacks on nine different targets (whirlwind attack) in 6 seconds. A midget (halfling) cannot win a grapple check against Triple H (an ogre) by random chance (d20 roll) or even skill. There are things done all the time in real life that aren't allowed by RAW, just as the rules allow characters to do things that are impossible in real life. So, forget all the D&D mechanics that cannot apply to real life and look at levels as a measure of ability, skill, talent, proficiency, whatever. So, what? You're looking at it comically right now? Gimme a break! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> You started this thread, so give it a serious look and see if it does what you're wanting with the proficiency level stuff.</blockquote>

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