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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Eldritch_Lord" data-source="post: 4856483" data-attributes="member: 52073">The best in that world.  The best people in this world rate around 5th-8th level in that world.Again, they don't come from the real world, so that makes sense.  Leaping hundreds of feet in the air in an instant, falling a few stories and being fine, frying someone to death with lightning, out-fighting dozens of mooks...that's a high-level D&D person, all right.They're epic level; by definition they're over 20th level.  You'll also notice that every single one of them is better than any given bunch of people in the real world.Sure, if the level scale were based on the real world, Yo Yo Ma would be 20th level and a baby would be 1st.  But it's not--you can't possible compare playing a cello really well and warping the universe to your will or charming the gods themselves with a tune.Okay--that's not epic.  Epic in the sense of famous and awesome and epic in the sense of power are different entirely.  The Beatles had talent with music, Ghandi was a very persuasive guy, and MacArthur was tactically adept, but none of them are on the scale of Gilgamesh, Beowulf, or Orpheus, who could move rivers by hitting them hard, manipulate the gods with music and perform literally superhuman feats.  If it's within the normal human range of ability, it's not epic, or even high level.A swim check in calm water is DC 10, and avoiding fatigue is DC 20.  A 5th level character with Str 18 and the Athletic and Endurance feats (which a trained swimmer would obviously have) a can literally swim forever without sinking by taking 10 and if he has max ranks in Swim has only a 5% chance to get tired after an hour of swimming (8 ranks + 4 Str + 2 Athletic + 4 endurance = +18 vs. DC 20, only failing on a 1), meaning that statistically speaking he can swim non-stop, without rest, for 19 hours straight.  That's superhuman.A character with 20 Con (18 + human paragon) can hold his breath for 40 rounds, or 4 minutes.  Then he needs to make a DC 10 (+1/round) Con check to keep doing so, meaning he can take 10 and hold his breath for an absolute minimum of 4.6 minutes.  With Endurance (which, again, such a character would have) that's a minimum of 5 minutes.A character can run 6 miles in 1 hour (without stopping at all) under his maximum load before taking even a single point of subdual damage.The assassin class has a "death attack" inferior in almost every way to simply hitting someone.   A regular 5th-level fighter can, with a crit and if focused on archery, make a single shot with a longbow to kill a Deinonychus dinosaur from 1200 feet away (1d8 + 4 Str + 4 Weapon Spec, x3 crit, max damage 48).  That's superhuman.Putting aside the fact that each attack roll doesn't represent a single attack, yes they can.  Not if you're swinging it wildly, of course, but if you're making short strikes or holding the blade you can do so.  Search for some medieval reenactment videos or similar.Swing it in a huge circle, hence Whirlwind Attack.You assume that one short and one tall creature of entirely mythological origin are nothing more than short and tall humans, and that the midget has no training while the ogre does.However, levels measure your maximum skill ranks, ability scores, etc.  You can look at the rules and very plainly see that a character of level X can jump Y feet, swim Z miles, earn W money performing, and so forth, and that at 5th level most of these abilities already outstrip world records.</blockquote>

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