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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zalabim" data-source="post: 6727604" data-attributes="member: 73227">In the third case, typically it's not the magistrate trying to convince a PC to take a job at a certain cost, but a PC trying to convince a magistrate to increase a job's pay. In any case, something that came up in the discussion, is that Persuasion and Intimidation are means, not goals. They aren't opposed by skills either, but tend to have a DC determined by what the goal is. So those tactics can be used on the PCs, and the result of the NPCs roll, or general bonus, could inform the narrative, but the player essentially determines the DC to succeed instead of the DM. Deception could be used in much the same way, even while being opposed by Insight to reveal the deception. In other words, insight could reveal the goal and truthiness of an attempt, then the PC still has the option to go along with it or not. For example"You don't want this motorcycle. Sleipnir here has 16,700,000 horsepower. It's killed everyone who's ever ridden it. You should try something more your speed." Insight "He's trying to use reverse psychology to goad you into buying this machine."Almost forgot. The magic that influences how a PC thinks or acts has, as its basic form, Charm which is advantage on Cha checks to influence someone's behavior. When monsters have those as major abilities, it implies to me that they should be using Cha checks to influence a PCs behavior.</blockquote>