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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 6739897" data-attributes="member: 67338">this is so insane... the whole argument comes down to one side wanting to use the in game world and the other the out of game world... but the people who want to use the out of game world are looking down on those that use the in game world...PCs get to make choices on things all the time. Dice rolls happen all the time. When using something on the sheets to interact we role play that too, but we don't allow 'My extremely dexterous character ducks at the last moment under the arrow' when the orc rolls a 20 on his ranged attack... it is the same thing with social skills, there are systems set up (mostly it's roll d20 add mod see how good or bad you did...I mean that's 90% of D&D systems) to help you role play... we just use that system.   I didn't just randomly decide something and force it on you. They system is set up to show how intimidating someone is... I am using that system.  It's a choice informed by mechanic though, I just instead of argueing role played how my character acted...because that doesn't take the ingame world into account at all. You are sitting at a table in a safe envoiroment, I assume your character has at least a dozen if not hundreds of other things happening to to him or her that are not happening to you. It then comes down to the DM having to describe perfectly the difference between a -1 intimidate score and a +15 intimidate score and each point between. It also ignore the basics of the game."I know he is just putting on a show" sounds like the worst meta gaming... it no different then "Gee I don't care if I go after a hard challenge, worst case scenero I draw a new PC"  I'm not talking about a DM pc... I am talking about a character that this week is a PC and next is an NPCSO you think good roleplaying changes this Tuesday to next Tuesday? not your way, your way the player only has how persuasice the GM is...nothing about the character matters...if DM1 sucks at being persuasive and DM2 is a 'playa and salesman' who can sell ice to Alaskans in the winter, and both sit to run the same adventure where a dashing rogue with a cha 18 and training/expertise in persuasion is trying to get the PC to do something you will get widly different results your way... because you don't care about the game world at all just the real world.The player isn't in the world the character is...  no it's not and don't be insuliting... no more then there is in being intimidated, its how your REACT to it that matters...right because no matter how good at something you are out of game that is what happened in the world we are playing in...same with social skills  You also can't do that if you don't have the information about the world around your character... in this case you have 'how X is the DM' but not 'how X is the character'   (fill in x with Persuasive, intimidating, charismatic, strong, fast, smart... it doesn't matter)these then leads to "Well how intimidating is the orc?" what they do... I think never (maybe I'm not remembering one but I can't think of one)... on the other hand roling to see HOW WELL THET DO... all the time, that's how the game worksthe funny part is they are going to tell you how different that is. Because one made up thing on a piece of paper meant to reflect the reality of the in game world is more important then a different made up thing on a piece of paper meant to reflect the realit of the in game world...</blockquote>

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