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Message: <blockquote data-quote="PasLef" data-source="post: 7095252" data-attributes="member: 6877778">Hello,New to DMing, but a long time player. I was searching how to handle social skills and fell on this thread. Intersting read. There seems to be a iremediable conflict between to ways to play the game : ie. DM control of players vs Players have free will. Here is my take on this, as much to understand it than resume it!After reading a lot of posts, I think I understand the 2 views. They both differ from the understanding of the concept of "role" as in "role-playing" game. The first way is to play the game as you would play the "role" of your character as an actor would play it (ie, he is not stupid, he is just roleplaying his 8 int Barbarian). The DM and dice rolling are just "stage directions" on how to play. It makes more of a theatre play or improvisation where the goal of the whole game is playing a role (in the theatre sense of the word and not in the gaming sense of the word).The second way, the Free thinking PCs way, is different because the dice rolling is not "stage" directions" but information on the environment surrounding the PCs. The only way the PCs can interact intelligently with their environement is through information given to them by the DM. There is all kind of informations. Those that relate to the physical world like light, speed, etc. And there is also "emotional" information. Intimidation is one of them. This "emotional" information to have any use in this kind of game has to relate to something or else it is useless. Here is what I think about this and of how I intend to play with it. I like to use extremes to test things, so if a dragon, trying to intimidate a 1 lvl rogue rolls a 1 and the counter of the PCs is 20... It does not matter. The PC will never think the Dragon is all pomp and no action (lets say this is a real dragon from the Monster manuel and not a fake dragon of any kind). So... what is the use of intimidation in this exemple? None... The information is useless to the PC (ie, DM: The dragon huff and puffs, but you think you can handle it! - this is absurd). The dragon will eat the rogue in one bite and the PC know it. The opposite is also absurd (ie., the 1st level rogue trying to intimidate the dragon, rolls a 20 but the dragon rolls a 1... - the dragon will not flee and bow down to the rogue, again, the PC wishes it, but know that it will not happen). What this tells me is that there is no need to roll in this situation because the information is obvious to the rogue PC. I will never win this contest, the dragon is too much powerfull, I dont need to be intimidated, I am already intimidated if I am a 1st level rogue before a real dragon (or a soon to be dead rogue if not played very carefully...). But what about a PC facing a  human guard? Or a creature that the PC no nothing about, or a creature with levels? When do you know when your opponent is tougher than you? To me, this is when this skill is usefull for PCs (note : for NPCs vs NPCs, it should only be used has an outcome has they are not real and do not have to take decisons since they are controlled by the DM and for him there is no ambiguity). The PCs though need to know if their opponent "looks" tough in relation to them (this is where the CR rating is usefull has it gives a point of comparison).Any toughts will be appreciated,</blockquote>

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