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Persuasion - How powerful do you allow it to be?
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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7645457" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>I submit that FATE produces bad stories at the same rate D&D does. As evidence, I present ENW, where the are weekly posts about games going off the rails (like this very one). There's nothing inherently more likely to result in good story about the GM prewriting or curating a story than finding one in play.</p><p></p><p>Over a few threads that have touched on this I get that you dislike narrative games and also fundamentally misunderstand them. This is apparent in your ocean example. Narrative games use strong themes and genre tropes as rails for what fiction can be plausibly established in game. So, yes, your example could be true, but only in a game where it's established that the PCs can credibly jump over oceans. Then, the size of an ocean that hasn't already had its size established could be determined by how far an ocean-jumping PC jumps.</p><p></p><p>To go to [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION]'s example, if the story focuses is assassinating an Emperor, then the fiction around that is up for grabs in a narrative game. This does differ from a D&D style in that the D&D game will have strong DM curation and creation of the story elements while the narrative game will have strong genre logic as a guide which is on all players. This doesn't mean that narrative style games are less likely to produce good stories, nor more likely. But, it's worth noting that the story of Hero couldn't exist in D&D without heavy GM force, while it could happen in a narrative game. This isn't a criticism of D&D.</p><p></p><p>And, this all said, I agree with [MENTION=97077]iserith[/MENTION]'s comment to [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] -- letting play direct the story is fine, but it not how 5e is structured nor how its rules work. The system will fight you if you try. This is not a criticism of 5e (which I run weekly).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 7645457, member: 16814"] I submit that FATE produces bad stories at the same rate D&D does. As evidence, I present ENW, where the are weekly posts about games going off the rails (like this very one). There's nothing inherently more likely to result in good story about the GM prewriting or curating a story than finding one in play. Over a few threads that have touched on this I get that you dislike narrative games and also fundamentally misunderstand them. This is apparent in your ocean example. Narrative games use strong themes and genre tropes as rails for what fiction can be plausibly established in game. So, yes, your example could be true, but only in a game where it's established that the PCs can credibly jump over oceans. Then, the size of an ocean that hasn't already had its size established could be determined by how far an ocean-jumping PC jumps. To go to [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION]'s example, if the story focuses is assassinating an Emperor, then the fiction around that is up for grabs in a narrative game. This does differ from a D&D style in that the D&D game will have strong DM curation and creation of the story elements while the narrative game will have strong genre logic as a guide which is on all players. This doesn't mean that narrative style games are less likely to produce good stories, nor more likely. But, it's worth noting that the story of Hero couldn't exist in D&D without heavy GM force, while it could happen in a narrative game. This isn't a criticism of D&D. And, this all said, I agree with [MENTION=97077]iserith[/MENTION]'s comment to [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] -- letting play direct the story is fine, but it not how 5e is structured nor how its rules work. The system will fight you if you try. This is not a criticism of 5e (which I run weekly). [/QUOTE]
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