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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7645475" data-attributes="member: 4937">I agree, but that has nothing to do with problem I perceive FATE as having or anything that I said.  It's always a bad sign when someone decides to strongly disagree with me by starting out with a statement I already agree with.My ocean example is inherently and deliberately exaggerated to make the point clearly without delving into all the complexities that would be brought up in a real example from play.  I fully agree real examples from play would be much more vague and debatable, but the same problem would in my opinion underlie them.I don't dislike Narrative games at all.  I just think that many of the mechanics that have been niavely adopted to support Narrativist play goals actually run counter to them.See, it's up for grabs around that in ANY game.  By insisting that this is a particular element of narrativist games, you are already so far off the path there is hardly any hope that our conversation will be productive.   Narrativist mechanics do not singularly or especially create the concept of a fiction without predetermined outcomes, and indeed if that really is the point, then the fact that the mechanics in my opinion often work markedly counter to that result is much closer to my point.Oh just stop.  I said nothing at all about strong DM curation or any other such nonsense.  Do you have any idea how annoying it is to be told I'm fundamentally misunderstanding something, and then have you go off on a rant about "strong DM curation"?   Unless you actually mean that is strong DM curation to suggest that an ocean is 1000 miles wide and implausible to jump over unless you have superpowers, or unless you mean by "strong DM curation" that a sworn vestal virgin with every reason to fear the wrath of her deity should she break her vows is probably less seduceable that ones loving spouse, then drop the whole "strong DM curation" crap.That is absolutely and completely and totally wrong.And further, you still appear to have no clue with what I consider wrong with FATE's ability to generate story.</blockquote>

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