Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
PF2 and the adventure day
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 7645885" data-attributes="member: 12731"><p>The *real* cause is how utterly trivial it's always been for the players to stop the adventuring day on their own terms.</p><p></p><p>That is, not having to conserve any more resources than they want to themselves.</p><p></p><p>Anything from simply leaving the dungeon to casting Teleport to safety.</p><p></p><p>Countermeasures mostly range in the hilariously inept category: such as the idea that wandering monsters would deter adventurers from depleting themselves ahead of time. Which is trivially easy to avoid (Rope Trick is just one suggestion), at least for veteran players.</p><p></p><p>As long as D&D doesn't dare to challenge players by strictly controlling the access to rest, the concepts of adventuring day, balance and challenge will remain illusions that does not fool those players that know how to get around the adventure's or DM's pacing.</p><p></p><p>Just about the only trick in the book that even works a little is the good old time pressure: "please hurry, the dragon will eat the kidnapped princess in three days". To this I say three things:</p><p></p><p>1) relying on the same old storytelling move gets old fast.</p><p>2) in 9 cases out of 10, it's a bluff, plain and simple. Most official modules featuring time pressure don't even bother detailing what happens if the heroes isn't on time - because the secret is they can never be late. The final encounter always finds the heroes arriving "just in time"...</p><p>3) this makes players jaded. What if they simply refuse to go on adventuring low on resources. There are, after all, always more adventure and more princesses. Not to mention the fact the dragon and it's loot stays put. And that in D&D you can always raise the princess back to life after killing the dragon easily (because you held off attacking until you were fully rested)</p><p></p><p>D&D is not only lax in upholding the game challenge, it is actively hostile to the idea - player characters are given loads and loads of abilities that allow them to evade having to keep adventuring when resources are low.</p><p></p><p>There needs to be real change before I'll take the concept of the adventuring day seriously.</p><p></p><p>Likely not 6th edition but maybe 7th... *sigh*</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 7645885, member: 12731"] The *real* cause is how utterly trivial it's always been for the players to stop the adventuring day on their own terms. That is, not having to conserve any more resources than they want to themselves. Anything from simply leaving the dungeon to casting Teleport to safety. Countermeasures mostly range in the hilariously inept category: such as the idea that wandering monsters would deter adventurers from depleting themselves ahead of time. Which is trivially easy to avoid (Rope Trick is just one suggestion), at least for veteran players. As long as D&D doesn't dare to challenge players by strictly controlling the access to rest, the concepts of adventuring day, balance and challenge will remain illusions that does not fool those players that know how to get around the adventure's or DM's pacing. Just about the only trick in the book that even works a little is the good old time pressure: "please hurry, the dragon will eat the kidnapped princess in three days". To this I say three things: 1) relying on the same old storytelling move gets old fast. 2) in 9 cases out of 10, it's a bluff, plain and simple. Most official modules featuring time pressure don't even bother detailing what happens if the heroes isn't on time - because the secret is they can never be late. The final encounter always finds the heroes arriving "just in time"... 3) this makes players jaded. What if they simply refuse to go on adventuring low on resources. There are, after all, always more adventure and more princesses. Not to mention the fact the dragon and it's loot stays put. And that in D&D you can always raise the princess back to life after killing the dragon easily (because you held off attacking until you were fully rested) D&D is not only lax in upholding the game challenge, it is actively hostile to the idea - player characters are given loads and loads of abilities that allow them to evade having to keep adventuring when resources are low. There needs to be real change before I'll take the concept of the adventuring day seriously. Likely not 6th edition but maybe 7th... *sigh* [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
PF2 and the adventure day
Top