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Message: <blockquote data-quote="zztong" data-source="post: 7499383" data-attributes="member: 6943414">We had rested prior to the fight. Full HP, full spells, etc. If we hadn't been, the Cleric couldn't have healed for as long as he did and some of the offense would have been missing too. This group rests a lot because the newer players tend to spend their powers/assets quickly. We had been through some gnoll fights prior, so they rested.The ranged part of the encounter was a draw. The Manticore had slowed/immobilized a couple of folks and done minor damage. We had hit it some. Neither side was having much of an effect. It was when the Manticore ran out of ammo and landed that things went bad. That's when the Ranger became a burlap sack full of hay.The creature could crit our high AC folks 25% of the time and our low AC folks 40% of the time. The DM targeted the high AC folks and still managed 1-2 crits a round. As a 6th level critter it was throwing multiple dice damage, plus the crits. As a 4th level party, we were throwing single die damage back at it. After the fight, talking to the DM, he realized after the first round of the Manticore being on the ground that he had to pull punches.Our heavy hitter would have been the Ranger, but he spent the melee picking up gear and standing back up. The Cleric was a solid lock on heals. The Druid supplemented heals and did damage. The Druid was the heavy hitter. My Monk/Wizard (multiclass -- trying to playtest multiclassing) was able to hit about 35% of the time and didn't do a lot of damage. (I think maybe 16 points total, including a hit from a Ray of Frost in the ranged battle.) The rest of the party was absent that week. We played what we had.I don't mind the encounter. Being over-matched is okay. We could have attempted to flee and probably would have lost two characters. The math is just an obvious loss for us. That's encounter design, not the game system. Once the game system quits changing they'll have an easier time with encounter design. Its a period of testing, which is cool. Even without the playtest, the DM wouldn't be helpless. The game would have gone on.This fight hints to me that perhaps there's a "shelf effect" around 5th level. In PF1, folks would be getting into +1 weapons, but probably not kicker dice for another couple of levels once characters got more significant wealth. PF1 critter damage might be scaling up more linearly. In PF2, 4th level characters do not have a magic weapon option, other than the spell. I don't know there is a "shelf effect", I've not looked at it. I have only one observation.</blockquote>

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