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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 8398151" data-attributes="member: 12731">Pathfinder 2 traps can be hysterically more lethal than you're used to from other games.If you're not a specialist trap finder, you're generally given zero chance finding or disabling a trap higher level than you (which is standard given traps are often encountered one at a time). I don't mean you need to roll well or even succeed only on a 20. I mean literally no chance, you don't even get to make a check.Even if you are a maxed out specialist you can still easily have less than a 50% shot dealing with it. Again, same as any other high-level creature. But it makes you question how that character can call herself an expert...And traps can easily down multiple party members in one fell swoop.The only saving grace is that monsters very seldom take advantage of traps to attack weakened parties. Triggering the trap rarely changes anything (outside of the trap area).All this makes PF2 traps a very peculiar and artificial experience. As you say, you blunder into the trap, take a load of damage, get rescued by your friends, rest up for 40 minutes, and then proceed as if nothing happened. It can feel very... detached, inconsequential.However, any GM that tries to place traps in more believable and sensible patterns will quickly find that brings its own disadvantages.Either you adhere to the encounter budget guidelines and end up with both weak traps and weak monsters, or you risk TPKing your heroes.It can be quite challenging finding a middle way, and you will easily end up with too easy encounters (where traps are mostly annoying and time-consuming) or really hard encounters where allowing the party to rest for 30-60 minutes after every fight becomes a must.Also of note: haunts. I have found the support for integrating out-of-game mechanics and in-game descriptions is particularly weak in this case. For instance, you hear moaning spooky voices.How do you tell the difference between a monster (like a ghost you can kill with damage) and a trap haunt (impervious to damage but can be "disabled")?And if it is a haunt how do you shut it down before it can kill you and your friends?Do you talk it down? Angrily tell it to shut up? Play a soothing tune? Or just abstractly "exorcise" it (whatever that means)? Or something else...You basically don't know unless the GM gives you a menu of skill choices. (Diplomacy, Intimidation, Performance, and likely Religion, for the above example) There is no advice on how to frame giving out this information using in-game descriptions.And remember, this is a split-second decision on the trap finding hero's part. The trap is about to roll initiative and start hurting you.I am struggling mightily. Just handing out "choose between Diplomacy, Religion, and Performance" feels abstract and gamey. But the game does not help me come up with evocative descriptions that make players understand what they can do and what options their characters have. There are no cues that let my players understand that this haunt ignores Performance, say, and is impervious to Intimidation, and for some reason needs to be exorcised using Occultism instead of Religion.I'm getting an intensely videogamey feel as if the developers entirely forgot that telling the players which buttons to press makes for awful immersiveness roleplaying.I'm used to games where players concretely tell me what their characters do. Not abstractly tells me what skills they use ("I make a Performance check... 19 on the dice, success! I defeat the trap and we move on!")Haunts feel intensely abstract and gamey. Just a heads-up.</blockquote>

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