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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Staffan" data-source="post: 8398692" data-attributes="member: 907">I'm primarily talking about complex traps, which are generally the ones encounters are built around. Looking at the guidelines for what a trap for a level 9 standard encounter should be (level 11 complex trap), we see that it will have a stealth and disable DC of 33 (or possibly 36 – a hazard is supposed to have at least one stat at "extreme", usually either Stealth, Disable, or save DC/attack bonus, but let's ignore that for now). Let us for the moment ignore the skill gating of requiring Master proficiency to deal with a level 11 trap, because proficiency gating is naughty word of the highest order.Your 9th level wizard likely has a Perception of about +11 to +15, depending on Wisdom and magic items. That's not something I'd feel confident about rolling against DC 33. If the party has a barbarian they probably check in at about +14-15 or so (Expert, and stereotypically barbarians don't focus much on Wisdom). A fighter might hit +17 or +18, which means they "only" need a 15 to find the trap if searching (and if they're searching for traps in exploration mode, they're not doing things like keeping their shield up). If you don't, someone in the party is going to get hit by the trap's reaction, and then you need to try to disable it while it's actually trying to murder you.Let's take an 11th level specialist in traps: Rogue 11, Dex +5, Master Thievery (so +17), item for +1, Wis +4, Master perception (+17), and let's throw in the Trap Finder feat for good measure. That's +23 to Perception and +23 for Thievery. This is someone who's focused as hard as they can in kicking the ass of every trap they come across. They still need to roll a 10 (55%) to find a trap in the first place, and another 10 to disable it. But if this specialist comes across a level 11 complex trap by itself, that's a trivial encounter. That's what I mean by traps double-dipping. First their DC is pumped above normal level-based DCs (a normal level 11 DC is 28) because they're designed to challenge specialists, and then the encounter guidelines are set up to often throw over-leveled traps at the party, making them super deadly.</blockquote>

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