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PF2E like D&D 4e?
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<blockquote data-quote="Campbell" data-source="post: 8002820" data-attributes="member: 16586"><p>I will share my perspective as someone who was a pretty big fan of Fourth Edition (mostly up to Essentials) who grew disillusioned with it over time. I am probably somewhat unique in that what drew me to Fourth Edition initially was the lore and attitude of the game. While I was active on these boards and both played and run some Third Edition I was mostly into Vampire, Werewolf, and especially Exalted. Fourth Edition's depictions of ruined empires of Nerath, Bael Turoth, and Arkhosia really spoke to me. I fell in love with this broken place full of conflict and ancient secrets. That it was backed by a cosmology that was fundamentally sundered as well only drove me into it further.</p><p></p><p>Here's what I liked</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><p style="text-align: left">It was refreshing to see game books that were fundamentally meant to be used. Lore was sharp and to the point. Setting material focused on its impact to the characters.</p> </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><p style="text-align: left">I like to run and play games that are focused more on individual characters' lives. There is often a lot of talky bits and non-combat action scenes interspersed by random bouts of extreme violence. I have been conditioned by running a lot of Vampire and as of late Apocalypse World. I liked that it handled short adventure days much better than previous editions of D&D.</p> </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><p style="text-align: left">At the time I was really into hard scene framing and closed scene resolution so the self contained nature of combat encounters and skill challenges were right up my alley.I liked how punchy and visceral the game felt in play.</p> </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><p style="text-align: left">I liked how it was not afraid to get experimental and try new things. I loved the techniques introduced in DMG2. I loved how Neverwinter and Dark Sun both completely flipped the script on the game. There was such a sense of creative energy in this era that I find sorely missed in the age of Fifth Edition.</p> </li> </ul><p>Here's what started to bother me over time:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Combat was too plugged into fighting as a party. Fights were one or two characters faced off against lesser opposition felt rather stale.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Occasionally fights were over long before they were actually over. Generally we would treat this as an opportunity to surrender or move to a chase scene. Still it got old sometimes.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Exposure to games like Sorcerer and Apocalypse World taught to appreciate the value of just letting things snowball and dealing with fallout from conflicts rather than just rushing to the next conflict. My experience with OSR games like Star Without Number, Labyrinth Lord, and DCC only heightened that.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">For awhile I thought I was a big fan of Daily and Encounter powers. Over time I realized that I am more a fan of Fighters</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Essentials came on the scene and pretty much ruined my love for the line.</li> </ul><p></p><p>When Essentials came out I pretty much started running and playing other games. Indie fare like Apocalypse World, Monsterhearts, Masks, and Blades in the Dark. Stuff that straddles the divide like Chronicles of Darkness, Marvel Heroic Roleplay, Tenra Bansho Zero, Exalted 3e, and Legend of the Five Rings 5e. OSR games like Stars Without Number, Dungeon Crawl Classics, Labyrinth Lord, and of course Moldvay B/X. This was my experimental phase. I am still largely here.</p><p></p><p>So far I am really digging my experiences with Pathfinder 2, That is largely based on a few short runs (2-4 sessions) and Pathfinder Society play. I want to get a home game off the ground, but that will wait until after all this calms down. I play and run a lot of different games so I just need to make the time to add it into the rotation on more permanent basis.</p><p></p><p>Here's what I like about it so far:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Actual rules for stuff other than combat. Not generalized conflict rules either, but specifics.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Challenges are mostly focused on dealing with the current situation and resource management is secondary. Timing and coordination are important. It's not just about using spells and other abilities, but how you use them.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The game seems to have more awareness (when compared to Fifth Edition) of old school play. There are strong dungeon exploration rules. Learning how to fight each individual monster really gives you an edge. There are lasting consequences besides hit point damage. There is a strong focus on skilled play.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I love how integrated the lore is into the game and how accessible the Lost Omens line is to people just getting into it. I also love how it makes a real difference in play. Small stuff like edicts and anathema for each deity, banes and blessings from the gods, how there are archetypes and feats you need to accomplish something in the story to access.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The Rarity System.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I love how each class can be good at any skill and what that means for being able to deliver on character concepts. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A willingness to publish niche content.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Paizo seems like they are much more willing to experiment with the game this time around. The dev stuff also seems to have an awareness of the full breadth of RPG design. They seem very plugged into the indie and OSR communities.</li> </ul></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Campbell, post: 8002820, member: 16586"] I will share my perspective as someone who was a pretty big fan of Fourth Edition (mostly up to Essentials) who grew disillusioned with it over time. I am probably somewhat unique in that what drew me to Fourth Edition initially was the lore and attitude of the game. While I was active on these boards and both played and run some Third Edition I was mostly into Vampire, Werewolf, and especially Exalted. Fourth Edition's depictions of ruined empires of Nerath, Bael Turoth, and Arkhosia really spoke to me. I fell in love with this broken place full of conflict and ancient secrets. That it was backed by a cosmology that was fundamentally sundered as well only drove me into it further. Here's what I liked [LIST] [*][LEFT]It was refreshing to see game books that were fundamentally meant to be used. Lore was sharp and to the point. Setting material focused on its impact to the characters.[/LEFT] [*][LEFT]I like to run and play games that are focused more on individual characters' lives. There is often a lot of talky bits and non-combat action scenes interspersed by random bouts of extreme violence. I have been conditioned by running a lot of Vampire and as of late Apocalypse World. I liked that it handled short adventure days much better than previous editions of D&D.[/LEFT] [*][LEFT]At the time I was really into hard scene framing and closed scene resolution so the self contained nature of combat encounters and skill challenges were right up my alley.I liked how punchy and visceral the game felt in play.[/LEFT] [*][LEFT]I liked how it was not afraid to get experimental and try new things. I loved the techniques introduced in DMG2. I loved how Neverwinter and Dark Sun both completely flipped the script on the game. There was such a sense of creative energy in this era that I find sorely missed in the age of Fifth Edition.[/LEFT] [/LIST] Here's what started to bother me over time: [LIST] [*]Combat was too plugged into fighting as a party. Fights were one or two characters faced off against lesser opposition felt rather stale. [*]Occasionally fights were over long before they were actually over. Generally we would treat this as an opportunity to surrender or move to a chase scene. Still it got old sometimes. [*]Exposure to games like Sorcerer and Apocalypse World taught to appreciate the value of just letting things snowball and dealing with fallout from conflicts rather than just rushing to the next conflict. My experience with OSR games like Star Without Number, Labyrinth Lord, and DCC only heightened that. [*]For awhile I thought I was a big fan of Daily and Encounter powers. Over time I realized that I am more a fan of Fighters [*]Essentials came on the scene and pretty much ruined my love for the line. [/LIST] When Essentials came out I pretty much started running and playing other games. Indie fare like Apocalypse World, Monsterhearts, Masks, and Blades in the Dark. Stuff that straddles the divide like Chronicles of Darkness, Marvel Heroic Roleplay, Tenra Bansho Zero, Exalted 3e, and Legend of the Five Rings 5e. OSR games like Stars Without Number, Dungeon Crawl Classics, Labyrinth Lord, and of course Moldvay B/X. This was my experimental phase. I am still largely here. So far I am really digging my experiences with Pathfinder 2, That is largely based on a few short runs (2-4 sessions) and Pathfinder Society play. I want to get a home game off the ground, but that will wait until after all this calms down. I play and run a lot of different games so I just need to make the time to add it into the rotation on more permanent basis. Here's what I like about it so far: [LIST] [*]Actual rules for stuff other than combat. Not generalized conflict rules either, but specifics. [*]Challenges are mostly focused on dealing with the current situation and resource management is secondary. Timing and coordination are important. It's not just about using spells and other abilities, but how you use them. [*]The game seems to have more awareness (when compared to Fifth Edition) of old school play. There are strong dungeon exploration rules. Learning how to fight each individual monster really gives you an edge. There are lasting consequences besides hit point damage. There is a strong focus on skilled play. [*]I love how integrated the lore is into the game and how accessible the Lost Omens line is to people just getting into it. I also love how it makes a real difference in play. Small stuff like edicts and anathema for each deity, banes and blessings from the gods, how there are archetypes and feats you need to accomplish something in the story to access. [*]The Rarity System. [*]I love how each class can be good at any skill and what that means for being able to deliver on character concepts. [*]A willingness to publish niche content. [*]Paizo seems like they are much more willing to experiment with the game this time around. The dev stuff also seems to have an awareness of the full breadth of RPG design. They seem very plugged into the indie and OSR communities. [/LIST] [/QUOTE]
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