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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GreyLord" data-source="post: 8234355" data-attributes="member: 4348">I have found a similarity between PF2e and 4e, though it has nothing to do with the game rules or game system.I think if there is a major problem with PF2e currently, it's actually gatekeeping more than anything else.  Driving others away from the game simply because they are not part of your crowd.  This is one thing that WotC HAS done well in comparison for 5e.  It's their PR.  In 4e they tried to say that others were bad/wrong which (as opposed to what people think) didn't not kill it.  They indicated in commercials and other arenas that those who liked other games of D&D (1e, 2e, 3e, etc) were archaic or not playing it right.  There was the implication that if you weren't part of "the in crowd" who were the "elite" that you were not welcome.  It was still profitable, but it didn't experience the growth it may have if they were more welcoming to everyone. In 5e they've at least given the outward words that everyone is welcome no matter what system or idea they enjoyed.Paizo actually has said similar things with PF2e and tried to welcome all players, old and new, but my experience with some of the fans of PF2e seems to do the opposite.There are some that are welcoming (and I thank all those who are welcoming others to the game), but there are several that are very unwelcoming when I venture into the PF2e wilderness of players.  Probably half the reason I'm still on the fence on whether I'm going to give it another shot or not.  Other RPGs don't seem to have this problem these days.  The ratio of those who welcome others to the games are a lot greater than those who don't.  It's not a need for essentials, but a need to be more welcoming to new players.  You need something which makes the new players feel like they want to play the system.  There may be some entering it now (and part of which the BB and Abomination vaults are designed to do), but I think the ratio of those who simply dislike others who are not part of the "in crowd" is abnormally large currently in comparison to other RPG fans.Perhaps once the pandemic clears up and Paizo once again has live players in the store with Pathfinder and it's society they will be able to utilize a BIG push in welcoming and inspiring others to play PF2e.  I think there would have originally been a big push with the BB and Abomination Vaults if they were able to meet live with others which could give a massive surge of growth to PF2e.  Unfortunately, they were not able to do this at this time.  This doesn't mean that they are having a hard time at all, I just think it could have been a bigger instigator for growth (BB, Abomination Vaults) of new incoming players if they had been able to do so.  If my PF fan player is correct, and it really is a different experience in person, than only being able to participate in PF2e online and discuss it through online interactions has greatly colored how the game is, rather than how it may actually be.</blockquote>

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