Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
PH3 Playtest Race: Wilden
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="77IM" data-source="post: 4768774" data-attributes="member: 12377"><p><strong>What happened to Rule 0?</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The rules create a set of <em>shared expectations</em>. People expect D&D to contain, for example, elves, encounter powers, and Erathis, because they spent $30 on a book that told them that was what to expect. <em>Obviously</em> the DM can ban things, but at the risk of alienating players -- and that's where the problem arises.</p><p></p><p>There used to be the idea of "core" rules -- things you could reasonably rely on, like the PHB races and classes and spells and such. DMs had to specifically ban these, or else you could expect to see them. Then there were "optional" rules -- variant races, classes, and splatbooks, that required the DM's permission. This is how they managed the shared expectations: core stuff was quintessentially D&D so you could probably count on it, and optional stuff might be available, but might not, so check with the DM.</p><p></p><p>4E has done away with this distinction. They are trying to position everything as core, which is the equivalent of saying, nothing is optional. The most blatant example of this is the chapter on character creation. You may recall from 3E that step 0 of creating a character was to check with the DM to see if he had any setting-specific do's and don't's. Looking through the 4E chapter on creating a character, <em>it doesn't even mention the idea of consulting with the DM</em> on anything other than alignment. (I'm not trying to start a 3E vs 4E edition war -- I'm just criticizing a particular WotC policy of 4E.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>I am all in favor of plant-people as an <em>explicitly</em> optional race. I guess my complaint is really not with the wilden but with the 4E "everything is core" policy, because it gives players an expectation that the DM might not want to fulfill. I'm not sure I want to figure out how to work wilden into my setting (it was hard enough squeezing goliaths and devas in there last month), but I also don't want to say "no" to the player who bought PHB3 and expects to play one. It's much easier to say "no" when the races is labeled as optional, because the player's expectations were not as strong.</p><p></p><p> -- 77IM</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="77IM, post: 4768774, member: 12377"] [b]What happened to Rule 0?[/b] The rules create a set of [I]shared expectations[/I]. People expect D&D to contain, for example, elves, encounter powers, and Erathis, because they spent $30 on a book that told them that was what to expect. [I]Obviously[/I] the DM can ban things, but at the risk of alienating players -- and that's where the problem arises. There used to be the idea of "core" rules -- things you could reasonably rely on, like the PHB races and classes and spells and such. DMs had to specifically ban these, or else you could expect to see them. Then there were "optional" rules -- variant races, classes, and splatbooks, that required the DM's permission. This is how they managed the shared expectations: core stuff was quintessentially D&D so you could probably count on it, and optional stuff might be available, but might not, so check with the DM. 4E has done away with this distinction. They are trying to position everything as core, which is the equivalent of saying, nothing is optional. The most blatant example of this is the chapter on character creation. You may recall from 3E that step 0 of creating a character was to check with the DM to see if he had any setting-specific do's and don't's. Looking through the 4E chapter on creating a character, [i]it doesn't even mention the idea of consulting with the DM[/i] on anything other than alignment. (I'm not trying to start a 3E vs 4E edition war -- I'm just criticizing a particular WotC policy of 4E.) I am all in favor of plant-people as an [I]explicitly[/I] optional race. I guess my complaint is really not with the wilden but with the 4E "everything is core" policy, because it gives players an expectation that the DM might not want to fulfill. I'm not sure I want to figure out how to work wilden into my setting (it was hard enough squeezing goliaths and devas in there last month), but I also don't want to say "no" to the player who bought PHB3 and expects to play one. It's much easier to say "no" when the races is labeled as optional, because the player's expectations were not as strong. -- 77IM [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
PH3 Playtest Race: Wilden
Top