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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
PHB 2 power creep
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<blockquote data-quote="keterys" data-source="post: 4749936" data-attributes="member: 43019"><p>There is no "at most" - you are specifically instructed "Don't make the adventure too easy or too difficult for a group. Never being challenged makes for a boring game" along with the specific suggestion of using the scaling the encounter to add more enemies if encounters are too easy. That is certainly the easiest way, but you can also adjust levels upwards and downwards, change the ratio of minions to non-minions, change the location of traps, even order of encounters - in fact, such things have been directly encouraged in the case of replays by campaign staff.</p><p></p><p>"In short, being the DM for a Living Forgotten Realms adventure isn’t about following every word on the page; it’s about creating a fun, challenging game environment for the players. A great deal of good information on being a DM for a D&D game can be found in Chapters 1-2 of the Dungeon Master's Guide."</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I've had a similar level of experience of play. The level 1-4 LFR mods are just plain easy with PHB characters or PHB2 characters - if anything the PHB2 group I ran through it had a harder time than some of the PHB groups I've run, but that's probably because they're unfamiliar with the powers. That's one thing people have certainly gained - experience with the rules. People hardly ever show up with the really horrible combinations lately.</p><p></p><p>There are certainly some outliers - both new fighter options, especially battlerager, spitting cobra stance, guileful switch, for instance. Of course, those are all in Martial Power, not PHB2. AV's superior weapons and several items certainly upped the power level... but that's still not PHB2. </p><p></p><p>Looking at the PHB2 just for heroic tier, the shaman's pet can be hard to figure out for many DMs and end up quite powerful as a result - especially if a module has a way for it to completely block a corridor against weaker foes. The barbarian's damage numbers are certainly impressive, but not more so than a ranger's. The avenger is hardly breaking anything at low level, no many how many vicious fullblades they wield. Bards are good for forced movement, it's true - that's their shtick, and it's not exactly broken. If they hadn't addressed the Valor build there would be more to complain about there. Invoker is a more well-rounded wizard, but behaves much the same but with worse dailies so that's still fine. Druid is extraordinarily interesting and a great bit of design on showing new controller options... but broken? Are we looking at the same low level powers? Sorcerer I'd at least grant you a gut check on since it does look more powerful than a warlock. They're designed to do area striking, and they're quite good at it. They don't appear to be more powerful than a ranger, but I'd say they're certainly more robust than a warlock. There's a lot of complaints about the warlock's damage output, so make of that as you will. Etc.</p><p></p><p>Anyhow, I can totally believe any complaint that there is power creep in PHB2 - lord knows I've ranted and raved about expertise and such - but there is just about every book, because that's the nature of RPG publishing. But a headlong dash? You should really bring some evidence to the table if you're going to say that. I find MP far more dashy than PHB2. Far more.</p><p></p><p>P.S. While I don't have 10 LFR characters like cdrjcsn, I do have 5 LFR characters in the heroic tier, as well as a non-LFR character, and I primarily DM (about twice a week). I've been running for barbarians and bards since the previews went up, and plowing two groups of characters through LFR mods since the PHB2 hit a few weeks back.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="keterys, post: 4749936, member: 43019"] There is no "at most" - you are specifically instructed "Don't make the adventure too easy or too difficult for a group. Never being challenged makes for a boring game" along with the specific suggestion of using the scaling the encounter to add more enemies if encounters are too easy. That is certainly the easiest way, but you can also adjust levels upwards and downwards, change the ratio of minions to non-minions, change the location of traps, even order of encounters - in fact, such things have been directly encouraged in the case of replays by campaign staff. "In short, being the DM for a Living Forgotten Realms adventure isn’t about following every word on the page; it’s about creating a fun, challenging game environment for the players. A great deal of good information on being a DM for a D&D game can be found in Chapters 1-2 of the Dungeon Master's Guide." I've had a similar level of experience of play. The level 1-4 LFR mods are just plain easy with PHB characters or PHB2 characters - if anything the PHB2 group I ran through it had a harder time than some of the PHB groups I've run, but that's probably because they're unfamiliar with the powers. That's one thing people have certainly gained - experience with the rules. People hardly ever show up with the really horrible combinations lately. There are certainly some outliers - both new fighter options, especially battlerager, spitting cobra stance, guileful switch, for instance. Of course, those are all in Martial Power, not PHB2. AV's superior weapons and several items certainly upped the power level... but that's still not PHB2. Looking at the PHB2 just for heroic tier, the shaman's pet can be hard to figure out for many DMs and end up quite powerful as a result - especially if a module has a way for it to completely block a corridor against weaker foes. The barbarian's damage numbers are certainly impressive, but not more so than a ranger's. The avenger is hardly breaking anything at low level, no many how many vicious fullblades they wield. Bards are good for forced movement, it's true - that's their shtick, and it's not exactly broken. If they hadn't addressed the Valor build there would be more to complain about there. Invoker is a more well-rounded wizard, but behaves much the same but with worse dailies so that's still fine. Druid is extraordinarily interesting and a great bit of design on showing new controller options... but broken? Are we looking at the same low level powers? Sorcerer I'd at least grant you a gut check on since it does look more powerful than a warlock. They're designed to do area striking, and they're quite good at it. They don't appear to be more powerful than a ranger, but I'd say they're certainly more robust than a warlock. There's a lot of complaints about the warlock's damage output, so make of that as you will. Etc. Anyhow, I can totally believe any complaint that there is power creep in PHB2 - lord knows I've ranted and raved about expertise and such - but there is just about every book, because that's the nature of RPG publishing. But a headlong dash? You should really bring some evidence to the table if you're going to say that. I find MP far more dashy than PHB2. Far more. P.S. While I don't have 10 LFR characters like cdrjcsn, I do have 5 LFR characters in the heroic tier, as well as a non-LFR character, and I primarily DM (about twice a week). I've been running for barbarians and bards since the previews went up, and plowing two groups of characters through LFR mods since the PHB2 hit a few weeks back. [/QUOTE]
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