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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DeJoker" data-source="post: 7230601" data-attributes="member: 6907519">Go back and read Post #41 as apparently you did not -- since you did not quote it as something I stated.  Next why not answer the questions I posed rather than simply deflect.Okay I will simply hopefully end this by saying - Your claim that the designers did not feel that Tool Proficiency were equal to Skill Proficiency is proven by the fact that they allow you to buy your Tool Proficiency up in game and they do not allow you to buy your Skill Proficiency up in game.  So with that logic a Skill Proficiency is equivalent to a single Weapon Proficiency which is equivalent to a single Armor Proficiency.  That said, because we already established that a single Weapon Proficiency and/or Armor Proficiency is not equivalent to a Skill Proficiency (or maybe you have not who knows and who cares) then just because you can purchase a Tool Proficiency does not mean that the designers valued the Tool Proficiency less than they did the Skill Proficiency all it proves is they created a method that allows you to take up a Tool Proficiency within the game during downtime. The reason for why they did that is pure conjecture, so putting pure conjecture aside all you can do is look at the individual item and make a guess.  My guess based on all that I have seen is that a Skill Proficiency (due to how it works) is the same as a Tool Proficiency (due to how it works) and as such are equal in status.  MY OPINION is thus stated and I am fine with agreeing to disagree.  Now the ball is in your court prove something you cannot prove and that is your position that the designers viewed Tool Proficiency to be worth less than a Skill Proficiency and do it with fact and not conjecture otherwise it is merely YOUR OPINION and I have already agreed to disagree with your opinion.Addendum to be more precise based on your criterion (without adding in conjecture based purely off the facts) we would have to say that all the following are equivalent+1 Attribute 1.5 Skill Proficiency 2 Weapon Proficiency Light Armor Proficiency Medium + Shield Proficiency Heavy Armor Proficiency 2 Language Proficiency 1 Saving Throw Proficiency 1.5 CantripBut sadly there is absolutely no evidence to state how much they felt a Tool Proficiency was actually worth because other than Class or Background and in Game Time+Money you cannot obtain them by any other method -- now you state that because within the limited framework of a Background that because within that small window because they say you can choose to take either 2 languages or 2 tool proficiency that they feel that they are equivalent. That assumption I feel is wrong, because if it were true then you could pick up a Tool Proficiency using a Feat and there are absolutely no Feats that allow that -- instead you can pick them up in game for money. Okay so they also allow you to pick up languages in game with Time+Money but to say that makes them equivalent is again not necessarily true as Language is a completely different mechanic than a Tool Proficiency.  Again I base my view on the mechanics of how a Tool Proficiency works not off of conjecture and that is my prerogative but having worked on designing games before I feel this is the safest method to equate different aspects of a game.  To me a Tool Proficiency can and should be as important as the currently most important Skill Proficiency (see message #41) and the reason they are perceived not to be is not a design element but a case of bad implementation by GMs</blockquote>

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