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<blockquote data-quote="eamon" data-source="post: 4100574" data-attributes="member: 51942">As a player, they're pretty useless indeed.&nbsp; I do use em as a DM once and a while for inspiration, however.&nbsp; And, if you're allowed to use the group-trick things, they could be useful for players too, but in general, they seem to much overhead for the limited benefit they provide, and since they provide benefit without much drawback, you might find DM's unconvinced as well.&nbsp; If you really want team-work benefits, then you're better off just picking your abilities wisely instead.The retraining section is important, even if you very rarely use it, since it addresses an issue that's bound to come up in many groups and previously was simply completely ignored by the rules.&nbsp; Them being published means that DM's are more likely to feel safe about allowing rebuilding in a controlled fashion, even if they do deviate from the PHB2 rules for them.&nbsp; Allowing rebuilding is an important factor is avoid the requirement for super-pre-planned characters.&nbsp; I like it when my players can play what's fun, and then evolve as the character grows, without necessarily being bound by an unfortunate choice in the past.All in all, I think the PHB2 is an extremely good book, better than the complete's by far, and in many ways better than core too (though, of course, it's not a complete game).&nbsp; The new rules in the PHB2, though not perfect, are more playable than many of the core rules.&nbsp; The new feats are generally good, and the spells are generally fine - and less broken than some spell compendium examples (wraithstrike, anyone?).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="eamon, post: 4100574, member: 51942"] As a player, they're pretty useless indeed. I do use em as a DM once and a while for inspiration, however. And, if you're allowed to use the group-trick things, they could be useful for players too, but in general, they seem to much overhead for the limited benefit they provide, and since they provide benefit without much drawback, you might find DM's unconvinced as well. If you really want team-work benefits, then you're better off just picking your abilities wisely instead. The retraining section is important, even if you very rarely use it, since it addresses an issue that's bound to come up in many groups and previously was simply completely ignored by the rules. Them being published means that DM's are more likely to feel safe about allowing rebuilding in a controlled fashion, even if they do deviate from the PHB2 rules for them. Allowing rebuilding is an important factor is avoid the requirement for super-pre-planned characters. I like it when my players can play what's fun, and then evolve as the character grows, without necessarily being bound by an unfortunate choice in the past. All in all, I think the PHB2 is an extremely good book, better than the complete's by far, and in many ways better than core too (though, of course, it's not a complete game). The new rules in the PHB2, though not perfect, are more playable than many of the core rules. The new feats are generally good, and the spells are generally fine - and less broken than some spell compendium examples (wraithstrike, anyone?). [/QUOTE]

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