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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jbear" data-source="post: 5230308" data-attributes="member: 75065">A year long campaign without a leader and totally new players to Dnd... a little hard to imagine. I'd guess they'll be dead pretty soon... As far as needing to min/max characters or have a host of options... as I play my first sessions of DnD with other players new to 4e, I begin to think it is not necessary at all.  Last night we got caught up into a fight with 7 goblins. We are level 1 and it was a lvl 2 encounter designed for 4 (apparantly from what the DM said) but our paladin couldn't make it and the 5th player didn't show. I like to highly tune my characters, but I think of the three last night, i'm the only one. Reasons to think this: The cleric had an ac of 12. That's right, he was wearing leather armour and has no bonus from either INT or DEX. I suggested when we hit the shops he put some money aside for a shiny new suit of chainmail... but we'll see.  Another suspiscion I have: neither he nor the wizard have used an encounter attack power in two fights. I am beginning to suspect they don't even have encounter powers yet at all. I did ask, but got no answer.  The Cleric, being human should have 3 at wills, but I've only seen two. I also suspect he only has two. I'm pretty sure he has limited his build to PHB options, so I guess the third option is a STR based power, and hence not really worth using with a STR of 12. Th wizard is also human. His At-will choices are far from 'optimised': magic missile, chill strike and thunder wave (which is by far the best of the three). I'm pretty sure one of his feat choices was extended spell book which is definitely not a min/maxer choice of 1st level feats. And yet we're all still alive. We emerged heavily beaten but victorious. Everyone was useful to the group in their own way and we all had a good time. So, seriously... relax. Your players will be just fine with just the PHB... until they die cos they have no leader. If they show interest in delving deeper into the sea of options, then let them. But it's like when you're potty training a kid: Until they show that first sign of interest then what's the point? Ok, it's not exxxactly like potty training a kid, but you know what I mean.</blockquote>

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