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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Larrin" data-source="post: 5813508" data-attributes="member: 55816">I have to disagree.  Any list of the BEST classes is still almost always topped by PHB1's (paladins and warlocks are the only ones that  sometimes don't make the list).  They've 'nerfed' phb1 powers the most because they were the most out of line, power-wise.  For example: Blinding barrage is an ally friendly, BLIND, blast 3, that means a creature grants combat advantage, takes a -5 to hit, can't make OA.  It's near daze in the level of crap it puts an enemy in.  And then you want to do that AND daily amounts of weapon damage? It was very powerful, overshadowing the other level 1 dailies.  Now, its a good power IF you want to give out status effects, if you want damage, you should take something else. Almost like it's balanced now.Comparing Warden and Rogue dailies is a bizzare thing to do: they're different roles, different play styles, different types of dailies entirely.  Warden dailies last an encounter and are designed for a defender, Rogues have fire and forget dailies.  They do different things, and have a different level of importance to the class.  Wardens are a great class with great survivability and great dailies, Rogues are a great class with great damage and great at-wills.  I've seen wardens played at the same time as phb1 fighters (a more comparable set, in my mind) and they stand up great next to each other.  Rouges need to worry about keeping up with barbarians (tough call, but close), avengers (definitely), sorcerers (well enough),  and monks (in my experience, easily).  The phb1 Ranger leaves them all in the dust, in many ways (damage), but its play style isn't always as interesting as another classes.  The phb2/3 have interesting classes, some stand up quite well to the PHB 1, some do not (in my opinion/experience: bard, seeker, avenger), but in general its a close race.Different builds, of course, can really make a difference.  If a rogue was hit hard by the nerfed powers, then he was probably over powered before, and now isn't doing what you want him to do.  He probably isn't the character you intended to make anymore, and that's tough to swallow, and some DMs aren't keen on letting you just rebuild to remove the parts that no longer function the same....but ask, and look over the rouge list for powers/features that still do what you want.  As long as its not "Everything", you will still find it, I think.</blockquote>

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