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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 4842186" data-attributes="member: 82106">Yeah, I think you're pretty much making one of the most lopsided comparisons between PHB and PHB2 classes when you compare the paladin to, well, anything else. It is a good solid playable class, but it does have problems with a lack of sufficient options and its stat distribution certainly puts you in a bind. Even so the paladin doesn't come up short in terms of plain old power on the battlemat when you play it. Wardens for instance can mark easily, but then what? Warden's Fury is fine, but not as good as a fighter's CC. Warden's Grasp is nice too, but does no damage and its other effects are situational. There are times when a Warden simply can't do much at all to stick people to him and usually isn't as sticky as a fighter. WRT the paladin they certainly don't punish their mark target nearly as much, nor can they project that control much beyond 1 square.Paladins and fighters can overall dish out more damage. This has ramifications for defending as often a monster is going to take a shot from a warden to go after another character, whereas they could be a lot less well advised to do so from a fighter.The other PHB2 classes are definitely more sophisticated class designs in some ways than the PHB ones, but again it really doesn't particularly translate into better on the table. Both druids and invokers for example are very nice controllers, but the druid is a lot more limited in projecting its control anywhere on the battlemat than the wizard is. Invoker will do that job quite handily and is a very consistent controller, but when push comes to shove the wizard can do almost as well, can dish out a bit more damage, and overall is a bit more flexible.Other people have mentioned the other PHB2 classes. They all work well, but notice that the PHB2 strikers are designed for more limited types of tactics than any of the PHB1 strikers. They work great, but drop a barbarian in a swamp full of difficult terrain and things don't always look so good. Bards just naturally seem to follow the opposite curve. They are certainly WAY flexible, and perhaps open to a lot of cheese, but a good warlord will do its job just as well and there are some amazing warlord builds. With MP in the mix I almost find warlord to be the most successful class at its job of all. Shaman and bard can match it, but I don't think they can beat it.</blockquote>

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