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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Silverblade The Ench" data-source="post: 4720384" data-attributes="member: 19083">Oh made a mistake with the power' above, by the way <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />"Primal Restoration", not "Howl of the WIld"Plane Sailing,meh, but the shaman's use of spirits isn't compatible with the way I see druids, based on years of them in my games, especially not when I want them in my 4th ed Dark Sun games! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown    :("  data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" /> Druids always healed, amongst other things, healing wasn't their main thing, I know. Changing them so severely actually screws up a lot of my games in regards to way druids behaved, what they can do etc.Oh great, Ranger McStumblebum gets shot up the wazooki by a goblin arrow, runs to his druid friends for aid, and all they can do is stand around, mutter darkly, and phone up Suzi Shaman to come rub her bear spirit on the wound...!! There's the wounded ranger, posterior pointing skyward, and along comes this bloody big ghostly bear, and...and...well, would YOU be lying there very long?! I don't think so!! Off like a bloody rocket, I'd be! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />Doesn't exaclty jibe that, does it, druids not being able to heal, eh? (Sorry, laughing my ass off at that scenario, by the way, hehe!)Primal Restoration lvl 16 druid AOE heal utility (close burst 2),  is almost the same as Mass Cure Light Wounds (close burst 5), cleric lvl 10 utilityclearly the devs intended to give druids more healing ability than they currently have from the basis of giving them that powerful effect, but the rest of their healing powers are very few and spotty. IMHO, something's fishy.Druid heals-Primal Restoration, lvl 16 Utility, close burst 2 all can spend a healing surge or make a save-Unyielding roots, +con modifier heal if bloodied, sustainable.-Strength of the Hunt lvl 23 attack, you can spend a healing surge as a bonus (IF you take Primal Guardian route, an ally cna also spend on)-Howl of the Wild, lvl 16 utility, close burst 5, you spend a healing surge, and and everyone heals 2d6 hit points.-Fires of Life, lvl 1 daily, area burst 1 in 10 squares, for each creature that dies before saving from this, a creature of choice can regain 5 hp +your con Modifier, or, as an Aftereffect a creature of your choice regains hps = to your Con modifier (which is nice actually vs a crowd at that level!)Now, that list is a bit screwy, don't ya think? it does not add up, it's not comparible or sequential.WHy give a pwoer that's an AOE healing surge to all, similar ot a clerics, but druids get it at higher levle and does a smaller area.IMHO, it looks liekclerics are meant thus,to get heals similar to clerics, but a bit weaker and at 6 or more levles higher by comparison.Maybe the devs decided ot remove heals from druids and forgot that one, or forgot to add more in at lower levels? It just doesn't add up when they get such a good AOE heal spell, to say "Opps, they are controllers, they cna't heal", when they obviously DO get heals.*scratches head, sighs*And don't worry I'm not a druid player wanting the "Super-Dr00d" back, hehe. I'm a DM who likes druids. Be it home brew (very Celtic in theme), FR or Dark Sun, druids have long been major fixtures of my games. I do NOT like changing them like this (removing almost all healing ability). Druids weren't the most uber healers, so it's fine by me to increase levels or weaken heal abilities versus clerics etc in 4th ed. But it's gone way too far.Controllers does make sense as a druids 4th ed role, they've long been the sneaking, insect summoning, harassing SOBs who drive folk loco, so that is fine by me.But they DO heal as well as that, heck, iirc, they used to get Neutralize Posion long before clerics in 2nd ed?I loved their regeneration spells they got in 3rd ed: "Invigorate" line, that idea seems great to me.I do not want "shamans" with spirits as "stand in druids".  Shamans are fine, but shouldn't be forced into being druids' "healer stand-ins" in say, a barbarian campaign.I'm happy if the shamans heal more for a game balance reason, but the druids should heal, and IMHO, heal a bit differently.I don't blame them for altering druids, as they were very abusable, but this is...meh :/Druids in D&D often communed wth the "spirits of the land" but they didn't conjure spirits: they summoned elementals. Druids revere and live with the land and forces of nature, shamans deal with spirits. BIG difference, thematically.I can accept the designers fitting classes into 4th ed roles and avoiding over powering druids, but this isn't right.Nuts to it! I'm gonna give them an innate power of healing or my Dark Sun games won't make sense (with druids). :/Best I can think of, short term.(Bards I've long wished were not for dungeon, rough and tumble fighting, but were mostly only social adventurers, ie crap weapon skills, but great people/finnese skills,  but again, that's an aside. And Dark Sun "Bards" are assassins!)Mr WIlson,well I won't allow Artificers in most of my games, they simply don't fit except in Ebberon and maybe Spelljammer, I'm afraid, or maybe as a tinker gnome <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />That class just is too...arcana-steam-punkish, sort of for most settings, IMHO.DM's have to call a halt to things, sometimes, eh? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />Asmor,Bah! Humbug I say! Humbug! what about if they get a "Bag of Bandaids", eh? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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