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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Silverblade The Ench" data-source="post: 4722780" data-attributes="member: 19083">Correct! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />As the other poster noted, druids DO get a good AOE heal, and as I've said already, and shouldn't need to repeat myself, that does make them "Healers", sort of! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />But it's only one spell, so there's something seriously wrong.It's a glaring anomaly.If the "Guardian druid"  is meant to a druid with leader (secondary), and the class does have such a heal, WTH hell don't they have more healing ability?Why is it all clumped into lvl 16?"Primal Restoration" is roughly the same as a cleric lvl 10 power "Mass Cure Light Wounds", but druid get their power at lvl 16 and it's a bit weaker.I'm totally happy with that difference! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Druids were not as good healers as clerics, it's not their "prime thing", and yes that does matter even in 4th ed!You can't turn round and say "Oh er, clerics are leaders so they can wield big swords that trip folk up, n' thats it, because I say so!" by a silly sort of comparison <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />because just chopping folk up with swords is not what clerics are about...you've changed them totally, not merely mechanically.They are no longer "clerics", clerics do more than melee.Hence I said, it's starting to throw the baby out with the bath water.Druids never ever went around before with a ghostly bear that healed and buffed folk like 4th ed shamans can! (Short of killing BooBoo <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devil.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":devil:" title="Devil    :devil:" data-shortname=":devil:" />)So saying folk should mutliclass druids to get heals, is completely missing the entire point.Why should a fighter multi-class to a ranger just to be able to use bows?!Remember, fighters can use bows in 4th ed, ya know, it's just they ain't as good, by design and logic, as a ranger (who's a mobile light armour fighter nowadays, not a woodsman by default).See what I mean? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I don't care what munchkin "CODzilla's" did. That's gone, that's history.I'm a DM, I just want druids ot be "druids".WOTC already screwed up with wizards by bending too far to reduce the over powered problem of wizards, and left them a bit under powered in 4th.They know that, they admitted it, we hope it's fixed in Complete Arcane.(They need their "controller" mechanics improved)Warden never existed before 4th ed, shaman did but shamans are still pretty much "shaman" as they were, though the empahsis on "Nature" spirits is a bit much, IMHO: ancient ancestor spirits (warriors etc) should work too for shamans.So WTH should a druid HAVE to multiclass with a shaman or cleric then waste more feats to let him swap powers, when he should have a modicum of healing ability, anyways? :/Please, again, I am not saying they should be healing as good as clerics!But they should have Utility powers that do so that they can chose if they wish, or attack powers that do some healing in return for hurting. Or something.For short term simplicity sake in my own games I'm just gonna give 'em "healing word "or such if players run a druid. I don't have time to write up a bunch of different powers that are more applicable.Please note this, it's not what I *think druids should have* it's just short term for simplicity best I can think of. Or maybe a regen power as said before (which I'd preffer).Anything to let my two player friends run a ranger and druid as their PCs and be able to heal up without having to waste feats on multiclassing etc etc when that doesn't make any sense.Here are all the four druid's healing powers for comparison:Now that's nice, you can see it thematically: takes life and gives life, goes with the druid ethos, and ain't too powerful.But that's the only such power, what a waste!Damn good, but why? they don't get any true heal before now at all, nor any after, so why can they suddnely heal everyone around them when before they couldn't heal a single person like this?Larger area than "Primal Restoration", but you lose a healing surge and heal a small amount.So, at lvl 16 utility, you have your only two direct healing spells for druids...that is obviously barmy putting them both in together!Very weak sauce and odd as thats the only such one. Why not others, to continue that theme?But that's it, no other power they get is like that, they get two other powers that are rubbish for hp gained.As Bold Or Stupid notes, druids get the Heal skill on thier skill list...odd for  a non-healer, eh?And healing in combat is what counts, not out of combat!Sure it's nice if you heal more after a fight, but it's not nearly as important as staying alive in the fight.So: Druids should get heals, they should not have to multiclass for it, shamans are not druids, they are thematically different and that IS important. Druids who go towards the Leader style should be able to heal for damn sure.Druids shouldn't heal as well as clerics, and should prefferably heal differently to clerics.Simple, eh? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I know what roles are, but you don't screw up the game millieu and history to fit the mechanics, which hasn't happened before so why should it now?Wanna make paladin's wear cloth, hm?*goes out and hugs an oak!* <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/angel.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":angel:" title="Angel    :angel:" data-shortname=":angel:" /></blockquote>

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