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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8944410" data-attributes="member: 18"><p>Nobody can stop you having completely wild and bananas opinions! Don't let them try! There's always somebody like that in the world of Trek. Always has been. I mean, I've been followed Trek on the net as long as there's been a net, and there were always people who said (and these are all approximate quotes from messageboards I used to visit):</p><p></p><p>"TNG sucks ass, TOS was so much better!" (Used to be a common opinion, even)</p><p></p><p>"Picard is a dumb loser wimp who sucks."</p><p></p><p>"Babylon 5 is a stupid rip-off of DS9"</p><p></p><p>"DS9 is THE WORST omg it's so dumb it's set on a station not a ship!"</p><p></p><p>"VOY is obviously just straight-up better than most of TNG and all of DS9! These writers really get it!"</p><p></p><p>"Paris is one of the best characters Trek has ever had!"/"Seven of Nine is the worst Trek character ever!"/"Neelix and Kes' relationship is beautiful and not at all creepy you monsters!"</p><p></p><p>I almost respect it, and I certainly expect it. I'd be disappointed if someone didn't have a truly bananas opinion on Trek quality. <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="🖖" title="Vulcan salute :vulcan:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f596.png" data-shortname=":vulcan:" /></p><p></p><p>Discovery is profoundly "mid", I would offer. It peaked in S2, and no coincidence that featured both the SNW characters and the best Disco characters the most. The Orville is a weird one. The big problem with it was that people started claiming it was good way before it actually was good. The first season is not great. It's decent, but not actually better than really anything, Trek-wise, and it's full of terribly Family Guy-style 20th century (not even 21st century!) pop-culture puns and references, some so ancient that I had to check how old Seth MacFarlane was. Turns out he's only 5 years older than me, so a very young Gen Xer, and just inexplicably has the musical and pop culture tastes of a particularly old Boomer. Season 2 on the other hand it matures into a genuinely good show, and season 3, as they cut down the humour even further (though there's still some really dumb stuff, and not in a good way), it actually fully turns into a good Star Trek show - indeed a Star Trek show arguably a little more committed to the ideals of the Federation than any Trek other than series-era TNG has been (the movies were less committed). The time-travel episode is particularly impressive on that front. So if Orville gets a season 4 and keeps improving at this rate, maybe it will be better than SNW (if SNW doesn't also improve). However I suspect there is no S4 for Orville.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 8944410, member: 18"] Nobody can stop you having completely wild and bananas opinions! Don't let them try! There's always somebody like that in the world of Trek. Always has been. I mean, I've been followed Trek on the net as long as there's been a net, and there were always people who said (and these are all approximate quotes from messageboards I used to visit): "TNG sucks ass, TOS was so much better!" (Used to be a common opinion, even) "Picard is a dumb loser wimp who sucks." "Babylon 5 is a stupid rip-off of DS9" "DS9 is THE WORST omg it's so dumb it's set on a station not a ship!" "VOY is obviously just straight-up better than most of TNG and all of DS9! These writers really get it!" "Paris is one of the best characters Trek has ever had!"/"Seven of Nine is the worst Trek character ever!"/"Neelix and Kes' relationship is beautiful and not at all creepy you monsters!" I almost respect it, and I certainly expect it. I'd be disappointed if someone didn't have a truly bananas opinion on Trek quality. 🖖 Discovery is profoundly "mid", I would offer. It peaked in S2, and no coincidence that featured both the SNW characters and the best Disco characters the most. The Orville is a weird one. The big problem with it was that people started claiming it was good way before it actually was good. The first season is not great. It's decent, but not actually better than really anything, Trek-wise, and it's full of terribly Family Guy-style 20th century (not even 21st century!) pop-culture puns and references, some so ancient that I had to check how old Seth MacFarlane was. Turns out he's only 5 years older than me, so a very young Gen Xer, and just inexplicably has the musical and pop culture tastes of a particularly old Boomer. Season 2 on the other hand it matures into a genuinely good show, and season 3, as they cut down the humour even further (though there's still some really dumb stuff, and not in a good way), it actually fully turns into a good Star Trek show - indeed a Star Trek show arguably a little more committed to the ideals of the Federation than any Trek other than series-era TNG has been (the movies were less committed). The time-travel episode is particularly impressive on that front. So if Orville gets a season 4 and keeps improving at this rate, maybe it will be better than SNW (if SNW doesn't also improve). However I suspect there is no S4 for Orville. [/QUOTE]
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