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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8990802" data-attributes="member: 18">But the last time that was even arguably true was in Deep Space 9 in the 1990s. So coming up on 25 years ago. A quarter-century.Since then, Section 31 have been smug CIA types who aren't acting only in desperate need, but constantly and ineptly manipulating people and situations, constantly working on totally unnecessary and unethical "mad science" projects (like MKULTRA in the real world, but much, much worse and more Nazi-esque), and totally failing to deal with all the biggest threats to the Federation, which end up having to be dealt with by real Starfleet.Section 31, as presented for the last nearly 25 years, don't have any ethics. At all. They don't even consistently have the goal of "protect the Federation", because they often engage in behaviour that is hard at-odds with that - again, much like the CIA and the USA.This sort of Hard Man Making Hard Decisions trash, which has absolutely no basis in historical reality, note, it's purely a macho right-wing anti-utopian fantasy for some men (and I do say men - it is a very male fantasy that you "need" to be wickedly evil to "protect good"). It's literally the excuse given by war criminals - "We had to destroy the village to save it" and so on.Remember "Batman's a fascist!"? The fact that they had Gordon coming out with this crap in the extremely demented The Dark Knight Rises is a big part of that. TDKR took a bizarrely political turn given the first movie was classic fantastical Batman, the second movie was basically a crime movie with a Batman-ish twist (much like The Batman) and only hinted at this kind of idiocy. It's a very political and very solidly right-wing movie, and that quote from it absolutely sums up its attitudes. That and the truly insane scene where cops armed only with melee weapons sprint directly into assault rifle fire (do I even need to get into that lol).If you're trying to a utopian (and essentially leftist) show like Star Trek into a macho anti-utopian right-wing fantasy, you've screwed up bigtime. Especially as Star Trek is focused on ethics and moral dilemmas.So make a show about that, that isn't essentially a right-wing macho fantasy exactly like the whole made-up "sheepdog" bollocks they teach cops in the US that makes them vastly more likely to kill people.</blockquote>

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