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Message: <blockquote data-quote="barsoomcore" data-source="post: 451556" data-attributes="member: 812">First, let's think about reflex savesI think I agree. Let's use Handling Modifiers rather than Turn Modifiers since again, creatures have Turn Modifiers and should logically get that bonus as well as vehicles. Since we're agreed we don't want to force a change to the published stats of creatures, we can't use the Turn modifier here.What about sail-powered vessels? Are they piloted via Dexterity?Here are the bonus types and my thoughts. Keep in mind we are talking about bonuses the pilot possesses and whether or not they apply to the vessel's AC or Reflex Save. List taken from DMG, page 177.Armour: NoCircumstance: NoCompetence: YesDeflection: NoDodge: MaybeEnhancement to AC: NoEnhancement to Dex: YesEnlargement: NoHaste: NoInherent: YesInsight: YesLuck: YesMorale: YesNatural Armour: NoProfane: YesResistance: NoSacred: YesSynergy: YesThat's an excellent point, and one that sways me a good deal to your argument. Okay, I think I might be sold on this.Here's what I think we agree on:If a vehicle is targetted by an effect requiring a Reflex Save, the pilot makes the save using his normal bonus (subject to the above type restrictions) plus the vehicle's Handling Modifier.A vehicle's AC is determined by starting at 10, applying the Size Modifier, the Handling Modifier and the pilot's AC bonuses (subject to type restrictions above).I still worry about applying this to sailing vessels. Thoughts?EDIT: added note about Turn Modifiers applying to creatures.</blockquote>

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