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<blockquote data-quote="aramis erak" data-source="post: 9303946" data-attributes="member: 6779310"><p>In general, I find alignment as faction no less problematic than as behavioral guide...</p><p>The behavioral guide only works if it's well presented to the players, and tracked well.</p><p></p><p>I found alignment tongues absurd, especially since they are magically changed when alignment did.</p><p></p><p>Hell, I hated most of the Gygaxianisms in AD&D; I liked the races, but not the level caps. I liked multiclassing, but not the implementation, preferring to simply add them together and have a single level number.</p><p></p><p>I used Paladins as fighter of level, cleric of 1/3 level, and can use a holy avenger. But I also had paladin types for CG, CE, and LE...</p><p>(My heydays for D&D were 1981-1983, 1989-1992, 1999-2001, and 2013-2018.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't allow blackhearted PCs. Not in any game. (Except when running DDAL games, where I was required to allow LE PCs.)</p><p>Nor will I play in a group where there's a blackhearted PC is being allowed. I don't enjoy such in my literature consumption, either; I like oBSG and Star Trek <em><u>BECAUSE</u> they're weekly morality plays</em>. The Vorkosiverse, ElfQuest, Pern - all have strong morality play elements. Even Starship Troopers (which I disagree with the morality being put forth) is a morality play.</p><p></p><p>The one character in a pendragon campaign who started as evil (but not to the bonus level) was allowed to reroll traits, but instead wanted to play the redemption of the character in thought and deed.</p><p></p><p>And that's before the element specific to Arthuriana... The Black Knight isn't even human in several versions. And a pretender to knighthood, in several more.</p><p></p><p>Which is largely why I've never tried to get <em><u>Pirates of the Spanish Main</u></em> to table.</p><p></p><p>For me, the important delimiter is the word "murder" - murder being an <u>unjustified</u> killing.</p><p></p><p>Sir Robin is, in the older editions, a knight removed from his lands by the corrupt sheriff and the Regent. As much a rebel as a thief, and a rebel against an unjust usurper. Only in certain subsets is Robin stealing from the poor... And since he's a rebel against an evil king, he's annoyingly (to me, at least) morally gray to maybe light grey.</p><p></p><p>Yes. I actually used it in two axis, but making it only 6 wide per zone, so 18x18. Made it really clear when a player was headed for a change. But that was the early 1990s.</p><p></p><p>Pendragon's Traits are essentially a 13 axis alignment system... with neutral effectively being 5...15 in each.</p><p></p><p>Evil and unethical are not synonyms, but often overlap.</p><p></p><p>I've in fact used a similar schtick as the basis of an evil county in a D&D campaign... live servants were for prestige, undead for efficiency. No contracts, tho'... if you couldn't pay for importing a corpse, your loved one's body becomes a part of the unpaid workforce until the bits fall apart.</p><p></p><p>My group proceeded to have a blast dismantling the place.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="aramis erak, post: 9303946, member: 6779310"] In general, I find alignment as faction no less problematic than as behavioral guide... The behavioral guide only works if it's well presented to the players, and tracked well. I found alignment tongues absurd, especially since they are magically changed when alignment did. Hell, I hated most of the Gygaxianisms in AD&D; I liked the races, but not the level caps. I liked multiclassing, but not the implementation, preferring to simply add them together and have a single level number. I used Paladins as fighter of level, cleric of 1/3 level, and can use a holy avenger. But I also had paladin types for CG, CE, and LE... (My heydays for D&D were 1981-1983, 1989-1992, 1999-2001, and 2013-2018.) I don't allow blackhearted PCs. Not in any game. (Except when running DDAL games, where I was required to allow LE PCs.) Nor will I play in a group where there's a blackhearted PC is being allowed. I don't enjoy such in my literature consumption, either; I like oBSG and Star Trek [I][U]BECAUSE[/U] they're weekly morality plays[/I]. The Vorkosiverse, ElfQuest, Pern - all have strong morality play elements. Even Starship Troopers (which I disagree with the morality being put forth) is a morality play. The one character in a pendragon campaign who started as evil (but not to the bonus level) was allowed to reroll traits, but instead wanted to play the redemption of the character in thought and deed. And that's before the element specific to Arthuriana... The Black Knight isn't even human in several versions. And a pretender to knighthood, in several more. Which is largely why I've never tried to get [I][U]Pirates of the Spanish Main[/U][/I] to table. For me, the important delimiter is the word "murder" - murder being an [U]unjustified[/U] killing. Sir Robin is, in the older editions, a knight removed from his lands by the corrupt sheriff and the Regent. As much a rebel as a thief, and a rebel against an unjust usurper. Only in certain subsets is Robin stealing from the poor... And since he's a rebel against an evil king, he's annoyingly (to me, at least) morally gray to maybe light grey. Yes. I actually used it in two axis, but making it only 6 wide per zone, so 18x18. Made it really clear when a player was headed for a change. But that was the early 1990s. Pendragon's Traits are essentially a 13 axis alignment system... with neutral effectively being 5...15 in each. Evil and unethical are not synonyms, but often overlap. I've in fact used a similar schtick as the basis of an evil county in a D&D campaign... live servants were for prestige, undead for efficiency. No contracts, tho'... if you couldn't pay for importing a corpse, your loved one's body becomes a part of the unpaid workforce until the bits fall apart. My group proceeded to have a blast dismantling the place. [/QUOTE]
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