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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FreeTheSlaves" data-source="post: 948361" data-attributes="member: 9952">Okay I'll run through some numbers. I will assume minimal stats so as to make my maths easier.Level 1 Wizard with 11 Int has a DC of 11 for his spells. Level 1 bad saves are +0 and succeed 50% of the time. Level 1 good saves are +2 and succeed 60% of the time.Level 10 Wizard with 15 Int has a DC of 17 for his best spells. Level 10 bad saves are +3 and succeed 35% of the time. Level 10 good saves are +7 and succeed 55% of the time.Level 20 Wizard with 19 Int has a DC of 23 for his best spells. Level 20 bad saves are +6 and succeed 20% of the time. Level 20 good saves are +12 and succeed 50% of the time.Summary:Bad saves succeeding = 50%, 35%, 20%Good saves succeeding = 60%, 55%, 50%Now we add in cloaks of resistance because this is a staple item that is desirable for saves in every campaign. I am aware of the various other bonuses for race and the like but they do not apply universally so I'll ignore them. Taking the 20th level characters and adding a +5 cloak we get:Bad save is now +11, succeeding 45% of the time.Good save is now +17, succeeding 75% of the time.Add the feats to influence the saves and DCs. This is difficult to gauge because the defending characters have to spend 3 feats to uniformly improve all saves by 10% but they are likely to only bolster the poor saves. That means they would use up 2 feats. The spell caster would require a massive 14 feats to improve all his DCs (ignoring divination) which is clearly never going to happen. Instead they will have a focused school, maybe 2, but not likely because of cost. So this one school which holds at least 50% of the spells that they regularly favour has their DCs bumped up by 2 to improve the DCs by 10% By a whisker I'd have to think that the defender now has an advantage worth, say, an extra 5%Bad save is now succeeding 50% of the time.Good save is now succeeding 80% of the time.Now add in the superior ability score that real characters have. I won't actually calculate anything because this is so variable but the following I believe to be true.<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">The character will max out their prime requisite.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Characters will improve save influencing stats as they can afford.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Spell casters will attempt to target poor saves. [/List=1] I don't know what the numbers would be but I bet that the spellcaster benefits the most here with their success rates versus poor saves. Good saves should still thwart the spellcaster more than half the time but that is how it should be. In short I think the change is fine but another possible solution for a pro-spellcaster campaign would be to restore spell focus to +2 and ditch greater spell focus completely. That would put the feats influence on DCs in the spellcasters favour again I think.</li> </ol></blockquote>

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