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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Pissed about the reduction of the Spell Focus Feats
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<blockquote data-quote="Al" data-source="post: 956206" data-attributes="member: 2486"><p>In fairness, it was a flippant rebuttal to a flippant argument. I fully accept that those wizards geared towards a certain school, especially those with specialisations or Spell Focus, are going to take a disproportionate amount of spells from their school. However, even being generous, I'd only put it at one half. A specialist Enchanter (who gets the most out of SF because of the save negates nature of his spells) will still take spells which target Fort and Reflex saves. He will use buff spells. He will still have utility spells (knock, teleport, tongues etc.). He will still need defensive combat spells (displacement, mirror image, wall of force). Ergo, I'd say one half maximum would be the most reasonable estimate of a specialist's school memorisation- and even that sacrifices a huge amount of versatility.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>Both of them combined cost less than one-third of a +5 Tome of Intelligence. They also give bonuses in other areas (checks and skills; attacks, checks and skills). </p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>Wrong on two levels. Firstly, Heighten Spell was never taken because it was weak. There are very few instances where lower-level spells can be optimised through Heightening more than they could through other metamagic feats (e.g. Empowered Fireball is usually better than Heightened Fireball) or by substitution for higher levelled spells (e.g. Hold Monster is better than Heightened Hold Person). Secondly, since HS would stack with SF/GSF, high DCs actually make HS more useful. The effective incremental power of raising an opponent's 'to save' number from 14 to 16 is more than that of raising it from 10 to 12.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>Not even wizards? Not even wizards, who are always assumed to have as many Int-boosting items that they grab? Not even wizards who buy Int-boosting items at three times the cost of everyone else's save-boosting items? If wizards have a 'shopping list' of DC boosters, then other PCs should be buying save boosters. A save booster, to the average fighter, is probably going to be more useful in the long run than upgrading to the next + of armour.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>Common misconception. When fighting intelligent and mobile opponents, increasingly likely at higher levels, they realise that the best way to shut down an enemy's threat as quick as possible is to target the wizards. After all, they do comparable damage to the fighters, and have fewer hit points. Leaving wizards at the back for several rounds is poor tactics on the part of the enemies.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>Good argument, but Grog has already pointed out that they circumvented the need for the save-boosters by giving nearly every high CR monster SR instead. A high SR is far more effective than a humble save-booster, even against wizards with Spell Penetration.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Al, post: 956206, member: 2486"] In fairness, it was a flippant rebuttal to a flippant argument. I fully accept that those wizards geared towards a certain school, especially those with specialisations or Spell Focus, are going to take a disproportionate amount of spells from their school. However, even being generous, I'd only put it at one half. A specialist Enchanter (who gets the most out of SF because of the save negates nature of his spells) will still take spells which target Fort and Reflex saves. He will use buff spells. He will still have utility spells (knock, teleport, tongues etc.). He will still need defensive combat spells (displacement, mirror image, wall of force). Ergo, I'd say one half maximum would be the most reasonable estimate of a specialist's school memorisation- and even that sacrifices a huge amount of versatility. Both of them combined cost less than one-third of a +5 Tome of Intelligence. They also give bonuses in other areas (checks and skills; attacks, checks and skills). Wrong on two levels. Firstly, Heighten Spell was never taken because it was weak. There are very few instances where lower-level spells can be optimised through Heightening more than they could through other metamagic feats (e.g. Empowered Fireball is usually better than Heightened Fireball) or by substitution for higher levelled spells (e.g. Hold Monster is better than Heightened Hold Person). Secondly, since HS would stack with SF/GSF, high DCs actually make HS more useful. The effective incremental power of raising an opponent's 'to save' number from 14 to 16 is more than that of raising it from 10 to 12. Not even wizards? Not even wizards, who are always assumed to have as many Int-boosting items that they grab? Not even wizards who buy Int-boosting items at three times the cost of everyone else's save-boosting items? If wizards have a 'shopping list' of DC boosters, then other PCs should be buying save boosters. A save booster, to the average fighter, is probably going to be more useful in the long run than upgrading to the next + of armour. Common misconception. When fighting intelligent and mobile opponents, increasingly likely at higher levels, they realise that the best way to shut down an enemy's threat as quick as possible is to target the wizards. After all, they do comparable damage to the fighters, and have fewer hit points. Leaving wizards at the back for several rounds is poor tactics on the part of the enemies. Good argument, but Grog has already pointed out that they circumvented the need for the save-boosters by giving nearly every high CR monster SR instead. A high SR is far more effective than a humble save-booster, even against wizards with Spell Penetration. [/QUOTE]
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Pissed about the reduction of the Spell Focus Feats
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