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PJ's LotR: non-flame-based discussion on what bothered you about it
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<blockquote data-quote="Fenros" data-source="post: 348703" data-attributes="member: 975"><p>I gave <em>Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring</em> a score of 8.0 out of 10.</p><p></p><p>There are many things I can list and discuss concerning the things I like, but this is about the things we didn't like.</p><p></p><p><strong>The Wizard Duel</strong> :I agree about the unimpressive duel between wizards. I'd personally like to have seen some more visible magic at play in that confrontation. However, I wonder, would showing more visible and flashy magic been in keeping with the characters and the LOTR setting? </p><p></p><p>Besides the bridge sequence where Gandalf confronts the Balrog, where else to we see him do battle magic? I know Saruman uses magic on Helm's Deep if I remember correctly. But my foggy memory doesn't remember Gandalf ever using magic for battle. Okay, I think in the third book he does something to the head honcho ringwraith so that his fear aura doesn't effect some people as much as it would normally. Other than that, I don't recall him ever using magic openly. Could someone more intimate with the books list the occasions? </p><p></p><p>Anyways, my point is, if the scene had flashier magic shooting about, would that ruin the continuity of the rest of the film? Wouldn't viewers be asking why Gandalf doesn't use his spells to attack hordes of orcs later? </p><p></p><p><strong>The Gift Giving Scene</strong>: I agree. This scene should've stayed in. I'm sure we could trim seconds here and there through out the film and been able to salvage about 2 minutes. </p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>The Uruk-Hai Homing Missile</strong> : This one is minor, but it bugged me. Saruman sends out Lurtz and da boyz to go after the fellowship. Then we see that Uruk-Hai hunting party running through the woods intercut with the fellowship travelling down the River Anduin (?). Then, as the fellowship rests, the orcs come upon them.</p><p></p><p>To many of my friends that haven't read the books, they felt as if the orcs made a straight line for them. How'd they know where the fellowship was? All Saruman knew was that they'd be on the other side of the Dwarf mine somewheres....but that's it really. There was no scenes of his birds maybe scouting or spotting the fellowship for the orcs or anything. </p><p></p><p>IIRC, the book I think handled it better. Which is odd for me to say. I felt the book had lots of clumsy parts, but as far as this is concerned, the book was better. In the book they ran into the orcs because lots of orcs were in the region patrolling. The orcs they ran into just happened to be one of many patrols they ran across. But in the movie, it just seemed that the hunting party knew exactly where to go. And man, do they travel fast! They depart Orthanc just slightly before the fellowship departs from Lothlorien and yet they get to that rest area along the river about the same time. Whew....that's some fast running!</p><p></p><p>Another gripe about the montage of the Uruk-Hai running and the fellowship rowing their boats is that I disliked the repetitive use of the helicopter swooping shot of the river over and over. I imagine them having originally done that whole sequence more elegantly but had to flush that version away because they needed to trim for time or something. So the version we see is this quick montage of cobbled together loose footage. Not making the scene as artful as it probably was originally planned. I sympathize with Jackson. Sometimes its real hard to avoid having that one crappy scene in a movie because you gotta do it to save another aspect of the movie.</p><p></p><p><strong>Frodo's Uninformed Decision</strong> : I agree that Gandalf should've mentioned that the Dwarves unleashed something terrible before letting Frodo choose between the two routes.</p><p>In the movie, it is made to seem Gandalf does know of the Balrog. Saruman says so. Something like, "....you know what they unleashed......shadow and flame......"</p><p></p><p>But this is a really really minor flaw to me.</p><p></p><p><strong>Goblins in Moria and how they Climb</strong> : I was once told by a LOTR expert the labels Goblins and Orcs are synonymous with each other. Well, I didn't know that and nothing in the movie tells you that either. Confusing the regular audience goer who is trying to keep track of all the monsters. </p><p></p><p>Also, the Moria Orcs/Goblins seem to be able to climb up walls and stuff. When the movie first came out one poster made a good observation by saying that this very ability that seems to be added in may put a monkey wrench in continuity later. Why would orcs at Helm's Deep need ladders to scale the walls if they can just climb up them? Unless someone in <em>The Two Towers</em> explains that only Moria Orcs can climb walls and no other orcs can. Or something like that.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Prancing Pony Song and Dance</strong> : I can imagine this one being a hard one for a director to decide upon. But to me, his final choice to not do the dance was okay by me. I undstood that it will take about another minute or so to develop the dance scene properly. </p><p></p><p>Plus as Holy Bovine had said: </p><p> </p><p></p><p><strong>Frodo Solving The Riddle</strong> : I didn't mind this change either. Originally, Gandalf was over thinking it too and it was later that he got some clarity and caught himself for not seeing the obvious. The scene sort of still works out the same, instead it is Frodo who states the obvious. Because his head isn't so filled with tons of arcane lore or other tons of worldly knowledge to over complicate seeing what needs to be seen. That and the fact that he's a hobbit. A Baggins at that. As a storyteller, this gives him something to do rather than just tag along carrying the ring. This sets up to the audience that Frodo can see things clearly and innocently.</p><p></p><p><strong>Gollum Knowing Bilbo's Name and the Shire</strong>: I agree that's odd too. The movie didn't show Bilbo having that face to face encounter with Gollum. So how would Gollum know Bilbo's name and that he came from the Shire? Well, I don't mind that bit of continuity error because I'm assuming it might be touched on later when Gollum is travelling with Frodo and Samwise and he retells how he met Bilbo. Maybe they'll do it that way.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Fenros, post: 348703, member: 975"] I gave [I]Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring[/I] a score of 8.0 out of 10. There are many things I can list and discuss concerning the things I like, but this is about the things we didn't like. [B]The Wizard Duel[/B] :I agree about the unimpressive duel between wizards. I'd personally like to have seen some more visible magic at play in that confrontation. However, I wonder, would showing more visible and flashy magic been in keeping with the characters and the LOTR setting? Besides the bridge sequence where Gandalf confronts the Balrog, where else to we see him do battle magic? I know Saruman uses magic on Helm's Deep if I remember correctly. But my foggy memory doesn't remember Gandalf ever using magic for battle. Okay, I think in the third book he does something to the head honcho ringwraith so that his fear aura doesn't effect some people as much as it would normally. Other than that, I don't recall him ever using magic openly. Could someone more intimate with the books list the occasions? Anyways, my point is, if the scene had flashier magic shooting about, would that ruin the continuity of the rest of the film? Wouldn't viewers be asking why Gandalf doesn't use his spells to attack hordes of orcs later? [B]The Gift Giving Scene[/B]: I agree. This scene should've stayed in. I'm sure we could trim seconds here and there through out the film and been able to salvage about 2 minutes. [B]The Uruk-Hai Homing Missile[/B] : This one is minor, but it bugged me. Saruman sends out Lurtz and da boyz to go after the fellowship. Then we see that Uruk-Hai hunting party running through the woods intercut with the fellowship travelling down the River Anduin (?). Then, as the fellowship rests, the orcs come upon them. To many of my friends that haven't read the books, they felt as if the orcs made a straight line for them. How'd they know where the fellowship was? All Saruman knew was that they'd be on the other side of the Dwarf mine somewheres....but that's it really. There was no scenes of his birds maybe scouting or spotting the fellowship for the orcs or anything. IIRC, the book I think handled it better. Which is odd for me to say. I felt the book had lots of clumsy parts, but as far as this is concerned, the book was better. In the book they ran into the orcs because lots of orcs were in the region patrolling. The orcs they ran into just happened to be one of many patrols they ran across. But in the movie, it just seemed that the hunting party knew exactly where to go. And man, do they travel fast! They depart Orthanc just slightly before the fellowship departs from Lothlorien and yet they get to that rest area along the river about the same time. Whew....that's some fast running! Another gripe about the montage of the Uruk-Hai running and the fellowship rowing their boats is that I disliked the repetitive use of the helicopter swooping shot of the river over and over. I imagine them having originally done that whole sequence more elegantly but had to flush that version away because they needed to trim for time or something. So the version we see is this quick montage of cobbled together loose footage. Not making the scene as artful as it probably was originally planned. I sympathize with Jackson. Sometimes its real hard to avoid having that one crappy scene in a movie because you gotta do it to save another aspect of the movie. [B]Frodo's Uninformed Decision[/B] : I agree that Gandalf should've mentioned that the Dwarves unleashed something terrible before letting Frodo choose between the two routes. In the movie, it is made to seem Gandalf does know of the Balrog. Saruman says so. Something like, "....you know what they unleashed......shadow and flame......" But this is a really really minor flaw to me. [B]Goblins in Moria and how they Climb[/B] : I was once told by a LOTR expert the labels Goblins and Orcs are synonymous with each other. Well, I didn't know that and nothing in the movie tells you that either. Confusing the regular audience goer who is trying to keep track of all the monsters. Also, the Moria Orcs/Goblins seem to be able to climb up walls and stuff. When the movie first came out one poster made a good observation by saying that this very ability that seems to be added in may put a monkey wrench in continuity later. Why would orcs at Helm's Deep need ladders to scale the walls if they can just climb up them? Unless someone in [I]The Two Towers[/I] explains that only Moria Orcs can climb walls and no other orcs can. Or something like that. [B]Prancing Pony Song and Dance[/B] : I can imagine this one being a hard one for a director to decide upon. But to me, his final choice to not do the dance was okay by me. I undstood that it will take about another minute or so to develop the dance scene properly. Plus as Holy Bovine had said: [B]Frodo Solving The Riddle[/B] : I didn't mind this change either. Originally, Gandalf was over thinking it too and it was later that he got some clarity and caught himself for not seeing the obvious. The scene sort of still works out the same, instead it is Frodo who states the obvious. Because his head isn't so filled with tons of arcane lore or other tons of worldly knowledge to over complicate seeing what needs to be seen. That and the fact that he's a hobbit. A Baggins at that. As a storyteller, this gives him something to do rather than just tag along carrying the ring. This sets up to the audience that Frodo can see things clearly and innocently. [B]Gollum Knowing Bilbo's Name and the Shire[/B]: I agree that's odd too. The movie didn't show Bilbo having that face to face encounter with Gollum. So how would Gollum know Bilbo's name and that he came from the Shire? Well, I don't mind that bit of continuity error because I'm assuming it might be touched on later when Gollum is travelling with Frodo and Samwise and he retells how he met Bilbo. Maybe they'll do it that way. [/QUOTE]
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