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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Planar binding = unlimited wishes?
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<blockquote data-quote="Pickford" data-source="post: 6077351" data-attributes="member: 6705297"><p>I suspect this is exactly the reason that Genie's cannot cast wish for Genie's. Anything that could cast a level 9 spell 3/day at level 12 would be a 'much' higher CR than 8.</p><p></p><p>Incidentally: For an automatic win planar binding any character with Moment of Prescience can add up to +25 to their opposed check making it essentially impossible for anything with an equal or lesser Charisma bonus to argue against them. i.e. Even if the bonus on making the Efreeti grant you it's 3 wishes a day is +0, it's impossible for him to refuse even if you only have a +2 Charisma bonus (matching his)</p><p></p><p>Edit: </p><p></p><p>By the by, the prep time and investment on these spells is not insignificant:</p><p>1) Moment of Prescience: Luck 8, Sor/Wiz 8 (8th level spell); 1 standard action; Components: Verbal, Somatic.</p><p>2) Magic Circle against Evil: Clr 3, Good 3, Sor/Wiz 3; 3 hours 20 minutes to draw directed inward with a diagram (take 20 for prep); Components: Verbal, Somatic, Material (a little powdered silver to trace the circle)</p><p>3) Planar Binding: Sor/Wiz 6 or Planar Binding, Greater: Sor/Wiz 8; 10 minutes; Components: Verbal, Somatic.</p><p>4) Dimensional Anchor: Clr 4, Sor/Wiz 4; 1 standard action; Components: Verbal, Somatic</p><p></p><p>So if a Sor/Wiz (Note Clerics lack two of the key spells required to even do this) wants to get this to work for the 3 wishes, they have to expend a combined spell levels of at least 21 (1 3rd, 1 4th, 1 6th, and 1 8th level spell (possibly 2)) and as much as 31 spell levels (more than the value of 3 wishes! (i.e. 27)) in essentially immediate succession and it would take approximately 3 hours and 50 minutes of totally uninterrupted time. </p><p></p><p>Not something you're doing every day and not something you can 'easily' do out in the wild or when there's a larger quest going on that involves either a serious time or life threat. (Though who knows how important it would be to get those wishes? Maybe that's what is needed to find the villain, save the village, etc...)</p><p></p><p>I suppose forgetting these costs exist is typical. Similar to people using identify on all the items in a horde, but forgetting that identify works on a single target and takes <em>1 hour</em> per cast.</p><p></p><p>Incidentally, if your PC is truly paranoid, they can cast a Mordekainen's Private Sanctum first to prevent any divination and provide immunity to detect thoughts, and then shapechange, polymorph or alter self so they resemble someone else so even 'if' the Efreeti was inclined towards seeking revenge, they would never find the correct party.</p><p></p><p>To summarize: There are simply enough spells that a truly wily PC with the proper prep time can become totally invulnerable to retaliation by virtually anything, the question is...did they prepare?</p><p></p><p>Double edit:</p><p></p><p>Any Sor/Wiz worth their salt would have given themselves permanent see invisibility by the tiem they decide to start pulling these shenanigans. (10th level minimum)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Pickford, post: 6077351, member: 6705297"] I suspect this is exactly the reason that Genie's cannot cast wish for Genie's. Anything that could cast a level 9 spell 3/day at level 12 would be a 'much' higher CR than 8. Incidentally: For an automatic win planar binding any character with Moment of Prescience can add up to +25 to their opposed check making it essentially impossible for anything with an equal or lesser Charisma bonus to argue against them. i.e. Even if the bonus on making the Efreeti grant you it's 3 wishes a day is +0, it's impossible for him to refuse even if you only have a +2 Charisma bonus (matching his) Edit: By the by, the prep time and investment on these spells is not insignificant: 1) Moment of Prescience: Luck 8, Sor/Wiz 8 (8th level spell); 1 standard action; Components: Verbal, Somatic. 2) Magic Circle against Evil: Clr 3, Good 3, Sor/Wiz 3; 3 hours 20 minutes to draw directed inward with a diagram (take 20 for prep); Components: Verbal, Somatic, Material (a little powdered silver to trace the circle) 3) Planar Binding: Sor/Wiz 6 or Planar Binding, Greater: Sor/Wiz 8; 10 minutes; Components: Verbal, Somatic. 4) Dimensional Anchor: Clr 4, Sor/Wiz 4; 1 standard action; Components: Verbal, Somatic So if a Sor/Wiz (Note Clerics lack two of the key spells required to even do this) wants to get this to work for the 3 wishes, they have to expend a combined spell levels of at least 21 (1 3rd, 1 4th, 1 6th, and 1 8th level spell (possibly 2)) and as much as 31 spell levels (more than the value of 3 wishes! (i.e. 27)) in essentially immediate succession and it would take approximately 3 hours and 50 minutes of totally uninterrupted time. Not something you're doing every day and not something you can 'easily' do out in the wild or when there's a larger quest going on that involves either a serious time or life threat. (Though who knows how important it would be to get those wishes? Maybe that's what is needed to find the villain, save the village, etc...) I suppose forgetting these costs exist is typical. Similar to people using identify on all the items in a horde, but forgetting that identify works on a single target and takes [I]1 hour[/I] per cast. Incidentally, if your PC is truly paranoid, they can cast a Mordekainen's Private Sanctum first to prevent any divination and provide immunity to detect thoughts, and then shapechange, polymorph or alter self so they resemble someone else so even 'if' the Efreeti was inclined towards seeking revenge, they would never find the correct party. To summarize: There are simply enough spells that a truly wily PC with the proper prep time can become totally invulnerable to retaliation by virtually anything, the question is...did they prepare? Double edit: Any Sor/Wiz worth their salt would have given themselves permanent see invisibility by the tiem they decide to start pulling these shenanigans. (10th level minimum) [/QUOTE]
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Planar binding = unlimited wishes?
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