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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elderbrain" data-source="post: 7585152"><p>Well, in the case of the Elemental Princes of Evil, they were ALWAYS depicted as evil (hence the group name!) so no surprise they were evil in 4e. I missed that issue of Dragon so was unaware of that stat block for Mual-Tar - have to go take a look. But there was a lot of "gods sorta good (mostly), Primordials bad" talk in 4e  books - I would have liked to seen it made more equivocal, because (IMO) a lot of the 4e material did seem to take the position that if you are with the Primordials, you picked the wrong side (That said, I DO remember that one of the Epic destinies you could chose involved you actually becoming a new Primordial...). I liked what they did with the Primal Spirits, where they were kind of rivals to the gods but weren't portrayed as inherently the bad guys, just another team you could choose to be on.</p></blockquote><p></p>