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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5661770" data-attributes="member: 42582">There's interesting stuff here. Some stuff on alignment stuck out in particular.I'm getting a picture, here, of play in which alignment is what the players make of it, rather than what the GM makes of it, even when it comes to the Outer Planes.So Quickleaf's players get to resolve among themselves what it takes to get a gatetown shifted into Elysium.And in Balesir's account, LG has a sort of dual meaning as an ideal - both what those on Mount Celestia believe, and whatever ideals the player of a PC paladin is striving towards - and there is scope, then, for conflict between these.Which leads me to another question for Quickleaf - what (if anything) did you use to generate conflict for your players trying the Elysium thing? What was the analogue, in your game, of Balesir's hypothetical dispute between the inhabitants of Celestia, and the PC paladin, disagreeing over what LG really requires.Also a mechanical question - does 2nd ed drop the original AD&D rules about alignment graphing and penalties for alignment change? Because the discussions of alignment here certainly seem to assume that those rules are not in play. (From memory, 3E dropped the penalty rules but kept the graphing stuff, and so still assumes that the GM is in charge of what alignment really requires.)</blockquote>