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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 5664568" data-attributes="member: 20323">So it's not whether there is a big reveal, but *how* that big reveal is reached that determines whether something is metaplot or not?Btw The Great Modron March was by no means an exception to the metaplot heavy adventures from TSR and later WotC. And, to be fair, those planescape adventures heaviest in metaplot (as I'm understanding it) - Modron March, Dead Gods, Faction War, etc. - were all penned by Monte Cook. In my opinion a great example of an open-ended planescape adventure is Harbinger House by Bill Slavicsek.It almost sounds like metaplot, as you're describing it, begins with mystery and narrows down to revelation.Whereas narrativist play just keeps on getting more mysterious?Hmmm. In theory that kinda makes sense. But AFAIK I didnt experience these two things as being opposed during my Planescape campaign. Actually this really doesn't have to do with Planescape specifically.I guess this is a new branch of discussion.Anyhow, I *think* we agree that narrativist play is possible in Planescape, and my examples illustrate that it's not swimming upstream against the setting to do so. Right?To be clear, I don't think we're using metaplot as a dirty word, but as a descriptor for a style of play. But maybe you already got that.Yeah I'm sure you have dozens of voices inside your head waiting to break out.  I mean that in a good way. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />[MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] seems to be pointing toward the transparency of those NPC motives and actions, and that metaplot is associated with a lack of transparency while narrativist play is about transparency. Feels like this is sliding away from Planescape and into RPG theory, and I'd like to dovetail back into Planescape and actual play (or the juncture of actual play and theory in Planescape) at some point.Your yugoloth politics example reminds me if alpha layers/masks in Photoshop. It's Shemeska, oh wait if I clear up all this white space it looks like it's actually the Oinoloth in the background, oh wait... Of course any campaign can have this, but I feel Planescape does this with a very interesting style. The PCs are expected to disrupt the plans of NPCs who are vastly more powerful - gods, demon princes, those sorts of planar powers. In other campaigns such entities may be unknowable (eg. the gods in Eberron). Part of what makes Planescape unique is the ability to interact and (hopefully) gain the upper hand over such powers.I don't know about your game's rails, but those are some huuuuge changes your players made! Especially without you expecting it.If it were me I'd have had 30 seconds of brainlock. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" /></blockquote>

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